General Discussionantimage > faceless void

depends on where you run the FV and what his teammates are

Reason why Void is a strong offlaner is because of his q. No mana what do you think will happen

void is considered a counter because he has two ways to prevent antimage from blinking, (chrono and time dialation), mainly it's the chrono but if you have no damage into chrono then all you do is lock him down for five seconds and then he just blinks away or goes ham on your team.

^ basically this

oh yeah void is played offlane durr

case closed

Any hero with an escape is countered by void problem is you first have to get xp and farm to be able to initiate on the AM and have ranged right clickers ready to burst him down.

It's kinda tough for void to offlane well vs a am so he'll have to rely on team more with the chronos and time dialation plus he'll need teamates with physical damage to kill him . Now if you run void sAfelane he should be fine cuz he'll have his farm . I guess void is mostly good vs am but not slam dunk counter and actaully negative if u gotta off his his sAfelane .

it's harder to play void than it is to play AM in a void vs. AM matchup.

but a good void > a good am

Good am ez wreck a good fv. Faceless Void so low mana pool. Rofl. Just blink on him abysal that shit and manta. Ez lmfao.

Why would you think the void would wait until the AM has all that farm to go chrono him?

good void > good am

WD's ward outside the chrono will GG AM

am versus void is a weird matchup but its not really one way or the other, imo its probably am favored just because of how the heroes work and how am shits on void in lane which ruins his game a lot of the time.

if its safelane void its different since he can pressure but the issue is that void is mega cooldown dependent and requires these massive shifts of heroes towards the lane if you want to kill antimage since void does garbage damage early on and needs manta+Diffusal to kill antimage on his own in chrono. then he cant pressure am for the next 2min so am goes to the other side of the map as void to farm and moves around, so he gets slowed early but as game gets later it gets super hard for void to ever find the antimage since lanes are always pushing in and stuff.

offlane void is garbage against antimage in most situations however. u turn into a walking chronosphere because you have no lane presence versus antimage and you end up super poor with nowhere to go (iron talon voids garbage and even if you iron talon you have to go to lane at some pt or you lose tower and supports control the map). walking chrono void is bad too since most am counters are heavy physical melee cores like ursa or pa or w/e who cant hit in chrono.

so ya shift that antimage versus void offlane is hell for the void and its super team reliant if its am vs void safelane. the easiest way to beat antimage is to pressure him pre bfury into 1-2 deaths or taking his tower/just generlaly not letting him have a easy time in lane. its not easy to do this though and it often doesnt work so ya ams def one of the better heroes versus void.

lmao kitrak, that's like your first normal comment in 3months

AM wins in lane pretty hard, after that a void with treads+vlads at 20 minutes isn't really a big threat to you as anti-mage. For an offlaner this hero is pretty farm dependent, with even awful lane supports like rubick you can crush him totally and force him to talon jungle which as an AM is your wet dream.

Safelane void is probably different, depends a lot on how good your start is and if the void has any team mates to help kill you inside the chrono.

u always talking about 1 vs 1 scenarios , meanwhile there will be always 5v5 which it always depend on your team

Solovoid will not counter AM as he doesnt get his items to compete AM in terms of dps and stuff. If u have ET + (for example) drow ranger, then Void counters AM

i think void is stronger versus anti at lane ..cause void will get vanguard . . before anything and will be untouched

in pur 1v1 scenario (even with 2 lvl disadvantage actually) the void is CRUSHING am. if let this way, void just need a mango to fly away when ganked.

However if you stay in a 3v1 situation, or even a 2v1, am becomes one of the strongest carry to have against void (during laning phase), due to that very mana break

Void's bash is magic right? So... :/

But void have a really low mana pool, am can harass void in early to drain his mana to prevent chronos/time walk. Especially chronos (mana costly)

Am>void

Good commentary but no one talked about the dotabuff stat, they don't really make sense and probably shouldn't be used to seriously.

I *think* how it's supposed to work according to the tooltip is, they look at all the mactches void plays vs AM and then all the matches void plays that don't have AM and compare the win rate differences. -2% means he wins 2% less when AM is on the opposing team, BUT what's really fucking stupid about that idea is he still has over a 51% win rate vs AM according to the same chart! So void still beats AM over half the time yet AM is considered a counter according to dotabuff cus void wins ever more when AM isn't there.

But even then it doesn't really make sense because void's overall win rate is 50.53% which is less than 51% vs AM, so I don't get it or get where they get the -2% from.

He's also supposedly very strong vs omni, but only has a 40% win rate vs omni. So, take what you will from those stats, but I wouldn't rely on them heavily. I just use them to get an idea of what heroes to start with and then use common dota sense like discussed in this tread. Like void vs omni, ok he can kill off omni in chrono so yes that seems like a very good matchup plus void often goes diffusal now. But void vs elder titan? Seems pretty bad despite having an advantage on dotabuff. ET can just stomp him from afar when he chronos.

if antimage has a reasonable support like oracle or shadow demon the void cant get anything in the offlane after the first couple of minutes because even with 8 tangos and salve it takes ihm like 3-4 tangos to get to pms and after that he runs super low on regen and gets mega bullied by supports and stuff.

sure you have a mango but its not like the am has to kill you, he just has to make you useless. you basically never can threaten with chrono and you cant farm reliably because you'll get zoned super hard since you cant timewalk or play aggressively. a lvl 3 oracle or sd can zone a low regen void pretty easily. if your support is making you 1v1 thats his issue. void cant actually trade evenly with am if am has treads+ring and void only has boots pms qb which is usually what happens. am also has extra regen so that trade always goes ams way

omni is different as you can sit in the very back and never get chronod ideally and as long as you're far away from teammates enough so that you wont get caught you can prevent void from doing much in chrono. i always thought omni>void

you don't need to threaten am with chrono, bash is enough, you have almost 20 damage more and a freaking bash, more life aswell.

Just live that lane with 0 mana so he cann't do any damage to you assuming you have pms. when pms are involved, you almost do 3 times more damages to him than he does to you. and keep a freaking mango in case you really need to blink.

However , it's true that oracle + am is kind of scary to void (while oracle without any mana burn heroes is like the worst sup against void).

Sd isn't that scary to void either, as long as you use your time walk properly (and versus sd, you can actually buy stick instead of mango) once you get the trick it's one of the worst sup versus void

everytime i play oracle against void i just edict him/his target and spam memes to his face
why's oracle bad against void? you can purge off the dilation bullshit too

either you use 2 spell to burst him, and he time walk, either you use only the heal spell (and try to finish the kill, which you aren't supposed to do), and he timewalk + get heal (eventually he could even disjoint the purge when you use both spell if he is really good -and thus wasting more mana for you and still getting healed for him-).

So basically, you waste a lot of mana for naught, while other support can force the timewalk for much less. (and maxing purge isn't exactly a good build)

the edict build is ofc the best one to play versus void, but yet you are basically limited strictly to auto attack to kick him out of the lane. as a void i'd gladly stay near you / creep during the edict, i'd either force you to run back and waste that edict, or disrupt lane equilibrium meanwhile.

but against am all your mana is gettng burned so you can't timewalk which is why am is so good versus void in lane

If it is one of those voids who sit on 0 mana with a mango and trade hits with bash I often go for vanguard before BF, if you can bully void in lane it makes the game a lot easier I find. If your support helps out at all you can very easily dive tower and kill void when you hit level 6. It also helps a lot when void is 6 you aren't constantly scared of him just randomly chronoing you whenever a +1 comes to lane.