you guys are all fucking idiots. listen up, you are all about to be schooled. i can understand where relentless is coming from. i agree with what he is saying. though he may not be completely correct, you guys shouldn't beat down his ideas just because he is lower MMR and gets bad items.
i think he is talking about real-time processing and decision making, not necessarily "pure mechanical reaction time". It seems that most of you think decision making is something that you "understand better" at a higher MMR. But what you don't realise is that decision making is not just about knowing what is the right thing to do or not. I would say 80% of it is how quickly your brain can process the right information and come up with an answer. So, when you watch noob games and you SEE poor decision making, remember that it is PARTLY the result of processing information slowly (YES, partly is the result of not knowing the right decision too). Taking too long to think when the situation demands an immediate response will most definitely result in the wrong decision.
have you guys tried making decisions while you are distracted? I suggest you try playing dota while doing math problems in your head the entire time, and then watch your replays. Let's see how many of you even buy the wrong items (i won't be surprised). you are bound to make the wrong decision.
Dota is interesting because it is a game that demands your attention for the entire duration (unless you play support lol). When your mind is preoccupied, it is impossible for your brain to process all the information correctly to come up with the right decision. Hence, I would argue that yes, it is possible to understand dota conceptually at a higher level than you play it. But no, it is incorrect to claim that dota is conceptually easy to understand. You must admit that there are definitely some high level concepts that pros understand that the rest of us do not. There are some easy to understand macro and micro level concepts that anyone can understand, but just cannot execute in game. I would say that if we could all "react correctly" everytime we play, and have at least basic macro/micro level dota concepts, we could all perhaps play at the 4k...maybe 5k level. But i wouldnt go so far as to say that we can all understand dota at a 6/7k level.
Being in a game and actually playing it and making the right decision is a lot harder than as a spectator.
Havent any of you rewatched your games and thought "wtf was i doing?". Mistakes look so obvious. Hell, im sure u guys have even watched pro plays and thought that a mistake was obvious.
Well, the difference between understanding the game while u watch it and playing it well, is a function of how often you play and practice the right habits. it is not about having fast reflexes (i think you all misunderstand what relentless is trying to say); it is about making the right decisions quickly under stress.
I seriously doubt pros contemplate every decision they make. a lot of it is muscle memory. that said, Im not talking about pure reflexes, but basically practicing the right decisions many times so that it becomes natural. this translates into better positioning. it translates into getting a good perceptual "feel" of the game while you play, and hence this translates into getting the right items. the more one plays dota, and practices the right habits, the more you free up attentional resources to focus on other play making information. that is what i would say differentiates really good players from average ones.
you guys are just skimming the surface by claiming that you (as a 5k player talking down to a 3k player) understand positioning better, or item choices better. but consider that even such things can be improved by faster thinking (again i will reiterate that i dont refer to pure reflexes).
give the man a break. he makes some good points. in case you guys think im talking shit, i am 7k psychology grad.
i know i know. tldr. in case you are wondering, im not claiming to be 7k. i talk about psychology. my main point is that you can understand dota at a higher level than you play. and @mhysa fuck you, im high skill in non ranked biatccch.
Hello, I'm not 6k, but 5.7, hit 6k 3 months ago but went down.
to answer all these bullshits from previous posts, ill set things straight.
1. Yes, there is a huge fucking difference between 5.0k and 6.0k
2. No, there is no big difference between 4.5k and 5.0k, BUT there is a huge huge huge difference between 5.0k and 5.6k
3. this relentless guy has 0 idea about what hes talking about.
4. to be honest, 6ks just do everything better, nothing else. They dont do some consistent bullshit because nothing is fucking consistent. They just do things more efficiently.
5. How do u get to 6k? Get fucking good and stop asking this stupid fucking question at dotabuff forum because its filled by a bunch of fucking 2ks jesus chirst
moonmeander is a bit braindead as a player and he talks in a weird way, but I like this guy cz he understands the very basics of how MM system works and has some kind of logic and reason that all the ppl claiming that "MM system is retarded", "teammates gold me back", "i need to buy smurf to get to the palce i belong to" etc. lack of.
im an mmr booster player and smurf account seller. i can tell u that there is a tier 5k-6k . just pick patch winner heroes. Or mute everyone pick terror / lycan / am or furion /medusa etc as splitpusher (dont join a single teamfight. ( im not jokin) .
and never forget that :
if u want to go mid : pick lesh or qop
if u want to play as teamfighter : pick gyro / spec / jug
if u want to play as sup : pick doom / brew / elder or ww
enjoy with ur free mmr recipe ( if u are a good player) .tx me later
I am at 4k4 mmr. I mainly play on support heroes and UNDYING offlane. I think i know well about heroes and items in dota 2. Can u guys pls suggest me what heroes should I spam play to reach 5k mmr? Thanks.
Difference between 5.3k and 6k is dependant on the player. Some 5k players got their MMR by randoming and playing decent, others got 5.3k by spamming the best heroes they got. Same applies to 6k players. If we look at a 5.3k player who randoms his heroes and a 6k player who spammed an OP hero, the difference is non existant, if we however look at a 5.3k player who tryharded with his best heroes and compare with a 6k guy who randomed his way up, you will defnitely see a difference. In Most cases 6k players know how to decide better and are more efficient.
And relentless, pls stfu. You have no idea what u're talking about.
Unlike doom, ember isn't strong in the laning phase. Ember also needs a decent amount of farm in order to get useful, doom just needs level 3 to be a pain in the ass. Ember also isn't the fastest farmer either.
TA would be much better than ember, she is strong in lane, has flashfarm and nice backup on ancients.
^ Adding to that when it comes time to holding your ground in a team fight embers generally aren't that good and most fear lockdown so will stand in the back using slight of fist to avoid lockdown which is the right way to do things but shows his weakness in overall team fights.
Mixing ember with a bunch of durable cores and frontliners is probably the way to get the most out of good ember player cause hit for hit he's weaker than most.
Doom excels at pick off and knocking out key players to make team fights in your favor, if you're team is dogshit it can lose you in the long run no matter how good you play.
I think relentless might actually have a point. There was a reddit guy who climbed from 3.1k MMR to 6k in 1 year. He is 16 years old. I doubt any player over 25 years old would achieve same stuff, even if he was smarter. Game is heavily mechanically oriented & reaction time is very very important, just as relentless said. Of course he is not 100% right, because there is more than just mechanical skill, but he is neither 100% wrong.
I can even see that someone can be 6k & have worse game understanding than 4k players. Look at Blitz for example, who is 7k MMR & whenever I see him commentating the game he is actually clueless, but he is still 7k, coz he is mechanically much better, can outlane nearly anyone & have great map awarness. We can only say who is a better player & clearly 7k is better than 4-5k, but sometimes 4-5k can have actually better understanding. Don't try to make all 6-7k players like gods, coz they clearly are not.
I dont think tho that full developed human reaction time is at 16 years old but probably around 20 so thats not really the point.
And relentless was mostly talking about that the thing between 6k and 2k is that 6k think way faster including the time needed to take decisions.
And imo thats not true, because , I, at 3.5k mmr dont always go for the right build, playstyle in every game and what not, ya, thats mostly due to pressure but even if i got lioe + 10 mins to choose i will probably still go the wrong way because i simply dont understand the game at a 6k mmr.
its like, if you put an average IQ kiddo to do some next level math exercise i am 100% sure that he wont do it anyway at all even if you give him his whole life without researching ofc.
Same shit with dota, a 2k will never be able to make a 6k decision given infinite amount of time because he simply doesnt understand the game at that level. If he learns and improve, then yes, next games he will choose right
lol im just 3,7k and even i know not to go with relentlesses builds lol
Jesus christ relentless how hard is it to shut the fuck up when you're already so wrong
whos fredj
holy fuck 4k weaver games? shit son
This shit's gold, every time.
Keep coming back Relentless, I'm a big fan. Do the one about the reaction times again.
@blink
reaction times? explain
besides hotd/satanic he seems to mostly build normal items (linkens / daed / deso). what's bad about his play besides his small hero pool?
well if you exclude the first line I do that all the time too.
you mean maelstrom not hotd. or did he sell hotd in that game
yo u srsly getting advice from a bunch of 2ks? LOL
Wait how the fuck does someone have 3000 games played and still in normal skill lmao
you have not "defeated pro players in pub games in dota 1 and dota 2"
wait how did relentless played in 7k games if he is still normal skill?
deIlluminati
@Androgynous
He had a many page rant a few months ago claiming that the only difference between 5k and 2k is reaction times.
you guys are all fucking idiots. listen up, you are all about to be schooled. i can understand where relentless is coming from. i agree with what he is saying. though he may not be completely correct, you guys shouldn't beat down his ideas just because he is lower MMR and gets bad items.
i think he is talking about real-time processing and decision making, not necessarily "pure mechanical reaction time". It seems that most of you think decision making is something that you "understand better" at a higher MMR. But what you don't realise is that decision making is not just about knowing what is the right thing to do or not. I would say 80% of it is how quickly your brain can process the right information and come up with an answer. So, when you watch noob games and you SEE poor decision making, remember that it is PARTLY the result of processing information slowly (YES, partly is the result of not knowing the right decision too). Taking too long to think when the situation demands an immediate response will most definitely result in the wrong decision.
have you guys tried making decisions while you are distracted? I suggest you try playing dota while doing math problems in your head the entire time, and then watch your replays. Let's see how many of you even buy the wrong items (i won't be surprised). you are bound to make the wrong decision.
Dota is interesting because it is a game that demands your attention for the entire duration (unless you play support lol). When your mind is preoccupied, it is impossible for your brain to process all the information correctly to come up with the right decision. Hence, I would argue that yes, it is possible to understand dota conceptually at a higher level than you play it. But no, it is incorrect to claim that dota is conceptually easy to understand. You must admit that there are definitely some high level concepts that pros understand that the rest of us do not. There are some easy to understand macro and micro level concepts that anyone can understand, but just cannot execute in game. I would say that if we could all "react correctly" everytime we play, and have at least basic macro/micro level dota concepts, we could all perhaps play at the 4k...maybe 5k level. But i wouldnt go so far as to say that we can all understand dota at a 6/7k level.
Being in a game and actually playing it and making the right decision is a lot harder than as a spectator.
Havent any of you rewatched your games and thought "wtf was i doing?". Mistakes look so obvious. Hell, im sure u guys have even watched pro plays and thought that a mistake was obvious.
Well, the difference between understanding the game while u watch it and playing it well, is a function of how often you play and practice the right habits. it is not about having fast reflexes (i think you all misunderstand what relentless is trying to say); it is about making the right decisions quickly under stress.
I seriously doubt pros contemplate every decision they make. a lot of it is muscle memory. that said, Im not talking about pure reflexes, but basically practicing the right decisions many times so that it becomes natural. this translates into better positioning. it translates into getting a good perceptual "feel" of the game while you play, and hence this translates into getting the right items. the more one plays dota, and practices the right habits, the more you free up attentional resources to focus on other play making information. that is what i would say differentiates really good players from average ones.
you guys are just skimming the surface by claiming that you (as a 5k player talking down to a 3k player) understand positioning better, or item choices better. but consider that even such things can be improved by faster thinking (again i will reiterate that i dont refer to pure reflexes).
give the man a break. he makes some good points. in case you guys think im talking shit, i am 7k psychology grad.
you guys are all fucking idiots.
didnt read further, but I already like you
>see wall of text
>read "you guys are all fucking idiots, listen up"
>check profile
>normal skill
> 4Head
EleGiggle
i know i know. tldr. in case you are wondering, im not claiming to be 7k. i talk about psychology. my main point is that you can understand dota at a higher level than you play. and @mhysa fuck you, im high skill in non ranked biatccch.
7k? psychology? normal skill?
http://i.imgur.com/BcIxUdr.png
Hello, I'm not 6k, but 5.7, hit 6k 3 months ago but went down.
to answer all these bullshits from previous posts, ill set things straight.
1. Yes, there is a huge fucking difference between 5.0k and 6.0k
2. No, there is no big difference between 4.5k and 5.0k, BUT there is a huge huge huge difference between 5.0k and 5.6k
3. this relentless guy has 0 idea about what hes talking about.
4. to be honest, 6ks just do everything better, nothing else. They dont do some consistent bullshit because nothing is fucking consistent. They just do things more efficiently.
5. How do u get to 6k? Get fucking good and stop asking this stupid fucking question at dotabuff forum because its filled by a bunch of fucking 2ks jesus chirst
i thought meatballs was mocking relentless.
or is he serious
i got the perfect guide for you op
this is how to get 6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXKxzr9NHo
moonmeander is a bit braindead as a player and he talks in a weird way, but I like this guy cz he understands the very basics of how MM system works and has some kind of logic and reason that all the ppl claiming that "MM system is retarded", "teammates gold me back", "i need to buy smurf to get to the palce i belong to" etc. lack of.
ye moons good idk what u talkin about
and ofc he talks weird hes asian-canadian we already know how that works
4Head eternalenvy 4Head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvicYeaL0lQ
I like moonmeanders mentality, that guy is dope.
moon is a flower
LMFAO
im an mmr booster player and smurf account seller. i can tell u that there is a tier 5k-6k . just pick patch winner heroes. Or mute everyone pick terror / lycan / am or furion /medusa etc as splitpusher (dont join a single teamfight. ( im not jokin) .
and never forget that :
if u want to go mid : pick lesh or qop
if u want to play as teamfighter : pick gyro / spec / jug
if u want to play as sup : pick doom / brew / elder or ww
enjoy with ur free mmr recipe ( if u are a good player) .tx me later
okay!
mmr booster cant get into vhs with his smurf xd
^ because he boosts for 1k lel
I am at 4k4 mmr. I mainly play on support heroes and UNDYING offlane. I think i know well about heroes and items in dota 2. Can u guys pls suggest me what heroes should I spam play to reach 5k mmr? Thanks.
i will only tell u my secret cos u are a fellow vietnamese
alch mid
easiest mmr in your life
" i am 7k psychology grad."
"in case you are wondering, im not claiming to be 7k. i talk about psychology."
wut
lmao the dunning kruger is strong in this thread. we can thank Relentless + guy defending Relentless.
Hey people under 3k mmr
Do you think riki will not be in games after you reach 3-4k mmr?
You are wrong i just reached 5k with just playing riki.Nothing changes every tier same keepo
my 2 cents.
Difference between 5.3k and 6k is dependant on the player. Some 5k players got their MMR by randoming and playing decent, others got 5.3k by spamming the best heroes they got. Same applies to 6k players. If we look at a 5.3k player who randoms his heroes and a 6k player who spammed an OP hero, the difference is non existant, if we however look at a 5.3k player who tryharded with his best heroes and compare with a 6k guy who randomed his way up, you will defnitely see a difference. In Most cases 6k players know how to decide better and are more efficient.
And relentless, pls stfu. You have no idea what u're talking about.
@kitrak:
Ember isn't freewin, doom is tho.
Unlike doom, ember isn't strong in the laning phase. Ember also needs a decent amount of farm in order to get useful, doom just needs level 3 to be a pain in the ass. Ember also isn't the fastest farmer either.
TA would be much better than ember, she is strong in lane, has flashfarm and nice backup on ancients.
^ Adding to that when it comes time to holding your ground in a team fight embers generally aren't that good and most fear lockdown so will stand in the back using slight of fist to avoid lockdown which is the right way to do things but shows his weakness in overall team fights.
Mixing ember with a bunch of durable cores and frontliners is probably the way to get the most out of good ember player cause hit for hit he's weaker than most.
Doom excels at pick off and knocking out key players to make team fights in your favor, if you're team is dogshit it can lose you in the long run no matter how good you play.
I think relentless might actually have a point. There was a reddit guy who climbed from 3.1k MMR to 6k in 1 year. He is 16 years old. I doubt any player over 25 years old would achieve same stuff, even if he was smarter. Game is heavily mechanically oriented & reaction time is very very important, just as relentless said. Of course he is not 100% right, because there is more than just mechanical skill, but he is neither 100% wrong.
I can even see that someone can be 6k & have worse game understanding than 4k players. Look at Blitz for example, who is 7k MMR & whenever I see him commentating the game he is actually clueless, but he is still 7k, coz he is mechanically much better, can outlane nearly anyone & have great map awarness. We can only say who is a better player & clearly 7k is better than 4-5k, but sometimes 4-5k can have actually better understanding. Don't try to make all 6-7k players like gods, coz they clearly are not.
I dont think tho that full developed human reaction time is at 16 years old but probably around 20 so thats not really the point.
And relentless was mostly talking about that the thing between 6k and 2k is that 6k think way faster including the time needed to take decisions.
And imo thats not true, because , I, at 3.5k mmr dont always go for the right build, playstyle in every game and what not, ya, thats mostly due to pressure but even if i got lioe + 10 mins to choose i will probably still go the wrong way because i simply dont understand the game at a 6k mmr.
its like, if you put an average IQ kiddo to do some next level math exercise i am 100% sure that he wont do it anyway at all even if you give him his whole life without researching ofc.
Same shit with dota, a 2k will never be able to make a 6k decision given infinite amount of time because he simply doesnt understand the game at that level. If he learns and improve, then yes, next games he will choose right
Also alchemist mid is free mmr