General Discussion

General DiscussionSpectre

Spectre in General Discussion
Dire Wolf

    i'm just saying if you don't have diffusal cus you are rushing radiance then you can probably just skip manta

    Cursed

      Whoever underestimate Manta on spec is clearly never going to bring out the best out of spec.

      Rocket

        i'd be extra keen to build manta if i've rushed radiance. why wouldn't you want the ability to farm more camps/lanes simultaneously?

        Ariaflutter.Ataraxia

          >Stout Shield
          >Quelling Blade
          > Tango
          > GG Branch

          Early Game
          > Tranquil
          > PMS

          Mid Game
          >Radiance
          Then go where u want to go.

          Ariaflutter.Ataraxia

            Tranquil is good, since you are weak early game and you will get harassed a lot. it will make you sustainable in lane without need to go back to fountain till u get radiance when u got ur radiance u can change it to anything to travel / phase.

            Coolie

              The advice in this thread is atrocious beyond belief. You definitely get early game items on spectre because it eases your transition into a radiance and keeps you viable throughout all stages of the game. haunt is one of the strongest spells early on and with phase boots aquila and urn you can solo kill almost any hero on the map. Most retards will go brown boots radiance and then the moment their lane is occupied by any non retard they sit in the trees soaking experience. If you build early game items with a quelling blade you can easily jungle and guarantee a Radiance from the 22-27 minute mark.

              Building early game items are a must. Phase boots and treads are a toss up on whether you think you will be able to get kills early, or value the tank ability and tread switching that treads provide. Aquila and Urn are cost efficient items that allow you to keep your mana and hp pool up provided you participate in early engagements to stock up charges. The chase potential with an urn is also very strong. Drums are a waste of a gold and a huge sink that neither increases your farming speed/sustain reliably or allows you to fight early. AOE gold in this patch is very strong and you should haunt in and try to participate in as many kills as possible. The skill build varies, but usually you want to max desolate so you can kill people early with at least two points in dagger before level 6. If you are in a contested lane you level dispersion, but getting more than a value point in dispersion early is a waste because of your tiny hp pool.

              Spectre is a hero you pick situationally into lineups you think you have a better late game against, or a lineup that features weak lanes. Radiance spectre is like battlefury anti mage, I'm sure its the only viable build this patch, unless vanguard is buffed. Early game items, Radiance->Heart/Manta->Manta/Heart-> Games over.

              Coolie

                tranquil boots jesus christ

                Miku Plays

                  ^ depends on game but not all the time

                  Rocket

                    How do you get any regen from tranquil boots whilst farming the lane?

                    Ps if you definitely in need of regen , dagger into the trees next to sideshop and abuse ring of health purchase/sell

                    Ariaflutter.Ataraxia

                      since 22-27 min is a fucking late and radiance is not worth it if u buy it at that time.

                      radiance it's on 15-20 min, more than that build casual core. not radiance core.

                      and in fucking pub with no coordination. u want to rely on getting 1 -2 kills on gank via haunt? don't think so. spectre not very strong in early and mostly you will get ur self in a 5v5 condition. or maybe 1v5.lol

                      Miku Plays

                        ^ btw, theres no such thing as late radiance on spectre as long as u had another item. Only use haunt if a fight started

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                        Coolie

                          ur right what do i know bout dotes im sure ur right

                          Ariaflutter.Ataraxia

                            @Rocket. early 6-10 min is hell for spectre unless you go trilane. of course tranquil it's a situational pickups. if u get harassed go tranquil. get free farm go phase. ez

                            especially laning with viper. and tusk. you just.....

                            and nice advice on ring of health purchase sell abuse. never think of that.

                            Charteuse Gale

                              If you can make 8-10 minutes vanguard, that means you are free farming as Spectre

                              don't waste 2150 gold on vanguard

                              there are many cheaper route, pt/phase, pms, urn, aquila,magic wand/stick, those item basically solves all spectre problems , mana regen(from aquila/urn) , hp regen(from urn), some good damage/stats from pms and pt/phaseboots.

                              A naked vanguard spectre is hard to kill, but won't pose a threat to the enemy, you cast dagger and chase enemy with no damage items ? after that your mana pool been eated alive by dagger , what gonna do ? farm again and make phaseboots/pt and aquila ? it cost over 4000 gold getting vanguard-aquila-phaseboots/pt.

                              While i can cut the cost making urn-phaseboots-pms-magic stick which 600 gold more expensive than vanguard but i get all the utility.

                              After that i can choose the route on making radience that usually hit the mark around 18-25 minute than going vanguard.

                              And in this meta you need to be active, spectre is a very bad farmer before radience, and creep bounty had been nerfed, making her farming more harder. Play her as effective ganker, join fight when you had haunt, score the kill, going back, farm again in the lane. Vanguard just make her more passive and delaying her core item so much, even if you want go radience, going manta or diffu, one vitality booster+urn already enough to sustain.

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                              Rocket

                                @Tohsaka - when will Tranquils ever be off cooldown? All you are getting from them is an extra +1 armor over what you would get from the ring of protection. honestly, i feel they are the worst boots for her.

                                the only time i can imagine they'd be vaguely useful is if you were completely pushed out of the lane and had to go jungle early and even then i'm not sure they'd be the best choice.

                                get boots that will help you secure gold from haunt kills.

                                jo~

                                  im sure a late 20min radiance is fine if u build it after 3ish small fighting items

                                  Cursed

                                    Most of radiance is situasional build, go for it if you think you can get HOT + phase boots/PT + radiance before minute 30+. If you force only radiance at minute 25+, you will really have a hard time to win the game unless enemy team throw really hard. It is always better to go for diffusal + manta build since you can pick off no utility skill/item support easily.

                                    Always remember Desolate + diffusal + 2 illu + hero deal ton shit of damage than radiance and it is not easy to farm 3800 golds for sacred relic. Just keep that in mind.

                                    Dire Wolf

                                      30 minute radiance on spec is definitely not too late if it's your 3rd or 4th item. With haunt radiance stays good on spec all game, it's not just a farming item like other heroes.

                                      I've gotta try the aquila + urn thing though, have never done it, and everyone keeps raving about it. I'm still stuck in the vanguard, diffusal build and it's not working. My stats are ok but losing games.

                                      Ath[e]isT

                                        Diffusal vanguard always wins me games if my teams not retarded 8-10 min vanguard is from free farm but often times if you don't make that vanguard you won't be able to continue to farm without dieing

                                        Ath[e]isT

                                          The problem with using urn is that if your not actively part of kills early enough you won't have any regen. I've tryed almost every early build for spectre: urn blade male, urn drums, vanguard. The best for me has always been vangaurd. You can make it from a starting item too something people over look. If you start with a stout really you only have to farm 1975$ item. Combined with the fact that most of the time if your not going vang your going PMS so it just feels like your dumping more money into the urn drums ROA BM ect than for the vanguard the only real extra benefit is mana regen you would get from urn and ROA... As for people who suggest just naked rushing a radi or diffusal that is just terrible greedy play. If I have a vanguard diffusal by 15-18 min I can have huge early impact in fights and really start to snowball off that and rack up assist gold.

                                          Dire Wolf

                                            I tried a game going urn and aquila, didn't do pms. We won but mainly just cus of good teammate plays, not cus I stompped although I started off quite strong. It feels like a very offensive build, haunt ganks you do a ton of dmg, but holy shit you are so much squishier. I definitely felt it. Naix was blowing me the fuck up. At one point I totally underestimated the dmg visage familiars do and let him gank me and died. With vanguard there's no way that happens, it blocks over half their dmg. I had issue farming jungle too, I would burn urn charges to regen between camps cus you kill so slowly you take a lot of dmg.

                                            So idk, I still think vanguard is underrated. I did go manta though and yup, it's baller. Had a couple pickoffs I haunted into and just blew people up. I got it after diffusal though so that made it even better. I think I will actually be skipping radiance for a while unless stomping. It takes to long to farm and while it's always strong, just going diffusal manta feels a bit stronger mid game and is a hell of a lot easier to farm.

                                            Opening idk, I didn't have any mana issues but I really miss that uber block and hp regen off vangaurd. Maybe you can go urn + vanguard + aquila, but then you're running out of slots really fast.

                                            Coolie

                                              oh yeah u buy a quelling blade guys haha i forgot xd

                                              Charteuse Gale

                                                Well actually it depends on people style

                                                If you try cheap builds like urn-pms-phase/pt-magic wand, you must know you still squishy but you had good damage output(from phase/pt) and had sustainbility from urn(both hp and mana) + it's cheap and you can just rush diffu/manta or radience on that. Other way you need to be extra careful if making this builds.

                                                Vanguard build is ok but i feel this build kinda sluggish on spectre(i love fast paced play style like helping team and such)

                                                And i must agree making radience now is very hard in this meta

                                                now you better go manta-diffusal

                                                Radience is always an ok item as 3rd or 4rd items

                                                Miku Plays

                                                  Its better if you let him play a defensive style play for spectre aka vangaurd, this lets him to know more about the hero overall imo

                                                  kxxy

                                                    im going phase, diffusal, manta, heart then rad now.

                                                    November.Rain

                                                      WTF IS UP WITH THIS PHASE BOOTS TREND.

                                                      FUCKING MAKE TREADS, GIVES U STR WHICH SYNCS WELL WITH DISPERSION, AGI WEN CHASING, INT WEN CLUTCH DAGGER NEEDED.

                                                      Just go QB->PMS->URN->TREADS->RADIANCE->LATE-GAME ITEMS

                                                      stop this gay ass phase boots on spectre trend. u already have a phase ability retards, and agi treads giv u enuf early dmg

                                                      Cursed

                                                        Power treads are legit but phase boots are definitely better most of time. Extra speed never going to hurt.

                                                        Remember build should be flexible according to situation, you don't have to build PMS/Urn/Radiance/Vanguard all of the time.
                                                        Hell ya i even go for mask of death first to farm in jungle because i cant farm in lane and my support doesn't even trying to help me in lane.

                                                        arin

                                                          @House of Balloons

                                                          76% winrate What the hell

                                                          Dire Wolf

                                                            Cus you haunt, people panic and run, you chase them with phase. I find it hard to get kills/pickoffs off of haunt with treads.

                                                            Lifesteal would fix the vanguard issue, it just feels so wasted on spec cus you don't do anything with it late. Though idk, I guess you could make vlads, skip aquila, that helps your mana regen. Or go dominator into satanic later and skip heart. That's kind of my issue, most other melee carries lifesteal fits on them naturally like sven or wk built in or troll. Even ck it's very acceptable for a late satanic. And then on ranged heroes you just kite the jungle like sniper, drow, medusa so you don't take dmg. I never know what to do with spec but if you don't farm jungle mid game you will fall behind.

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                                                            jo~

                                                              or maybe just get a pms

                                                              Charteuse Gale

                                                                I never make life steal on specs

                                                                many hero who build life steal items like ck, jugg, pa , troll and such had special gimmick on their heroes. They had high base damage, great attack speed or special ability like critical that synergy with life steal.

                                                                Spectre had ugly stats, low base damage/armor and her skill set is plainly useful to enemy heroes( dagger cost to much on creeps, desolate works on heroes only, dispersion reflect damage is joke on jungle creeps, and haunt no need to explain)

                                                                I can say she's the worst mele carry jungler

                                                                even if life steal can sustain her jungle , it's so fucking slow, i better go farm at creeps lane or go gank heroes, than sitting on jungle with the risk of getting ganked.

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                                                                Coolie

                                                                  i mean u hit for 150 damage with phase boots desoLate

                                                                  ♠︎Mihael Keehl™

                                                                    butterfly on spectre is kind of useless item, if u get a heart and ac you will get tanky enough to reflect back even more dmg at your enemies....if you get butterfly you fuck up dispersion since they miss you they won`t get any reflected dmg...and you want them to...

                                                                    Pom Pom 🍕

                                                                      Would you still go heart on her anymore? DB not being an orb means both skadi and satanic are more viable for tanking up.

                                                                      BlackXargon

                                                                        Re-posting..

                                                                        Based on experience, I just have to find ways on how I can get the most out of her skill set.
                                                                        The global presence, innate tankiness, and that phasing through unpassable terrains - gives me a lot of flexibility on how I can extend the game to more than 40 minutes!. Don't think about winning yet. It's all just about extending the game.

                                                                        To me, this is what Spectre can do other than afk farm.
                                                                        + TANK Tank tank!! (see the previous match link I posted)
                                                                        + Join every team fight
                                                                        + Create Space by attracting gankers and then TPing/hiding at the right time
                                                                        + Global Urn of Shadows also means Global KS

                                                                        This is why you can see that I have flexible item and skill builds, high level categorization would be:

                                                                        Early to Mid game
                                                                        1. Standard Spectre
                                                                        - Vanguard + Phase + 1 point disperse
                                                                        - then Radiance
                                                                        - Use when have easy laning phase and no snowballing hero from enemy
                                                                        2. "Battle Ready" Spectre
                                                                        - Urn + Aquila + Phase + 1 point disperse
                                                                        - then Radiance
                                                                        - Use when have easy laning phase BUT enemy has strong mid game potential
                                                                        3. "Thorns" of Spectre
                                                                        - Vanguard + BladeMail + Treads + max disperse
                                                                        - then Radiance
                                                                        - Use when there's a contested laning phase and enemy has strong mid game potential

                                                                        Late game
                                                                        4. "Anti-Mage" Spectre
                                                                        - Diffusal + Heart
                                                                        5. Standard Spectre
                                                                        - Heart + Manta
                                                                        6. Samurai Spectre
                                                                        - Blademail + Butterfly

                                                                        There's very niche permutations on top of these options but it just goes to show that there's a lot more flexibility to Spectre than just saying AFK FARM.

                                                                        I might actually build detailed guides on her in the in-game menu.

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                                                                        Dire Wolf

                                                                          Butterfly is great on spec cus of the attack speed. 30 agi means your illusions get 30 more dmg and 30 IAS which is a lot if they have desolate maxed and diffusal. But I wouldn't rush butterfly, it's like a 5th item.

                                                                          What are you guy's thoughts on bkb on spec? I hate building it, but I still find it necessary in a ton of games. And it's got hp and a little dmg so I guess it's not all bad. Heart is just too much to rush sometimes and won't necessarily keep you alive through that many ults.

                                                                          Like this game, between lesh, sk and cm I was getting trashed every team fight.

                                                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1730890083

                                                                          And this one, so much magic dmg.

                                                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1725725461

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                                                                          jo~

                                                                            butterfly is not great on spec until at least very late you have items like radiance ddifusal manta heart/skadi and also refresher which take precedence over butterfly unless ure fighting a carry who manfights you really hard like lifestealer etc

                                                                            Filthy

                                                                              So who is best nimber two position carry to pair with spec for late game like who is his robin .

                                                                              Dire Wolf

                                                                                You want guys who will create space but mostly who fight a lot so you can get assist gold, they don't necessarily have to be carries. And tower pushers are good since spectres tower damage isn't that strong.

                                                                                For mids I love a good storm, sf, invoker, qop and zeus. They all have good synergy with spec as they will fight a lot and storm/qop/zeus have great mobility so you can join their fights (well zeus not mobile but has global nuke).

                                                                                Axe is awesome on spec teams, protects him early, fights a lot all game.

                                                                                Pom Pom 🍕

                                                                                  Undying and Night Stalker are great as well. They have really strong early games that help stalling the game out and getting kills in spectre's weaker stages. And even though they're not as strong late game, Spectre will make up for it (undying with blink, aghanim and bkb can really buff your ultimate though).

                                                                                  Rocket

                                                                                    a spiritbreaker is awesome to have when you are playing spectre. guaranteed gold everytime your ulti is off cooldown.

                                                                                    Charteuse Gale

                                                                                      Best is Bounty Hunters

                                                                                      i always remember how much gold i get from track, assist+track bonus gold and i always get 100-200 gold(nearly hero kill)

                                                                                      and if i kills hero ? man the load of 300-500 gold

                                                                                      it's damn sexy, not to mentiont tracks provide vision+20% movements speed, it's truly make spectre haunt flexible and you can chase all day.

                                                                                      Another one is Zeus because of global damage, nuff said

                                                                                      jo~

                                                                                        during ti5 the OB stream(group of chinese expros like yyf longdd) always mentioned AA spec was a god-pairing, due to their global combo and most importantly it secured your trilane even if they went agr tri vs spec cuz of chilling touch
                                                                                        and you could see whenever the chinese teams expected a spectre pick they banned AA