General Discussion

General DiscussionSand King

Sand King in General Discussion
Arek Akashi

    Any build?

    Is Aghanim's Scepter worth it?

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    sleave

      builds? rush blink, press R, blink in and collect 25 mmr

      Welt aus Eis

        Blink is all you need, rest is luxury (force, veil, aghs, DPS items)

        Z__

          Veil > aghs. You can get both though.

          Ples Mercy

            blink, arcane, veil, aghs ,shivas, bkb, forcestaff, eul's

            should be the most common. Usual build would be:
            -> blink, arcanes, veil, aghs, shivas

            then gaem is over. Usually ends at the veil mark.

            Androgynous

              you should get veil over aghs most of teh time. they basically provide the same thing (extra damage), but veil is cheaper. aghs does have the lower cooldown, but if u arent taking advantage of the lower cooldown, then u should have gotten veil instead which would have given you almost identical damage but is 1500 cheaper, so you're basically paying 1500g for 20s lower cooldown.

              blink is core obviously.

              u can go tranqs + soul ring instead of arcanes if u want, it helps when roaming.

              rest of the stuff is just ur usual on supports: force, euls, ghost, aghs for mid game, hex, shivas, refresher, diffusal late.
              might have missed an item

              Ples Mercy

                ^
                veil does also give ur burrow and sandstorm extra damage and amps the magical dmg of ur teammates. I do think that veil > aghs because of it.

                Androgynous

                  epicenter damage 660 / 880 / 1100 (880 / 1100 / 1320 with aghs)
                  with veil which multiplies damage by 1.25 you get 825 / 1100 / 1375 damage.

                  lv 1 epicenter aghs > veil
                  lv 2 epicenter is equal
                  lv 3 epicenter, veil > aghs
                  all this is before you account for the increased damage from your teammates as well. so veil is pretty much better unless you're using epicenter to gank high priority targets or something, and you want the lower cooldown, similar to how a void with aghs can use his ult more liberally.

                  Androgynous

                    so realistically veil > aghs

                    Quick maffs

                      Andro .... are you relentless ? You know a lot about theorycraft man, but like him your mmr isnt as high as it should be by the knowledge you have of dota.

                      Welt aus Eis

                        or maybe he googled those values? (I doubt anyone here knows all the damages by heart)

                        murs

                          radiance or linkens first

                          sleave

                            sano, i know
                            all

                            you can ask

                            Quick maffs

                              Even if he googled most players would just say fuck it and not search shit

                              Dipshit

                                Not that hard to pull up gamepedia and do simple math...

                                sleave

                                  yea but by that he acquires knowledge which he could use to be a better player

                                  MisterG

                                    @Andro - Thanks for the informative posts.

                                    Androgynous

                                      no im not relentless. i do remember someone comparing me to him though. at the time i didnt know who he was.

                                      i have no idea why my knowledge of mechanics is supposedly high, although i dont consider it to be. i dont know how often u guys check the wiki but i sometimes have to look stuff up that i forget like cast ranges, total damage, shit like that. and i also read the alt tooltips in game so i guess some stuff just gets ingrained in my memory.

                                      item knowledge is pretty easy since theres not that many items in the game, hero knowledge such as base stats, attribute gain, mana cost of spells, cast ranges, turn rates etc im awful at.

                                      allidoiswynn

                                        "epicenter damage 660 / 880 / 1100 (880 / 1100 / 1320 with aghs)
                                        with veil which multiplies damage by 1.25 you get 825 / 1100 / 1375 damage."

                                        remember that if you use blink epicenter you lose 1 pulse and since you usually aim for safe epis and get veil/aghs after blink u should take that into account. So also calc it through with a lost pulse

                                        epicenter damage 550 / 770 / 990 (770 / 990 / 1210 with aghs)
                                        with veil which multiplies damage by 1.25 you get 687.5 / 962.5 / 1237.5 damage.

                                        So you guys see for veil it is barely a damage increase at higher levels.

                                        Tip: Shift-que the veil just like you do the blink after the queued blink command, so no damage gets lost and you secure bonus damage for you other spells and team

                                        Print Da Moolah

                                          @ Androgynous

                                          No need for soul ring, a null talisman and 1-2 clarities are enough.

                                          Sand King shouldn't be roaming early anyways, you either dual offlane with a strong hero like viper/potm and shut down the safelane carry early or you stack jungle camps and get a quick blink dagger. You can kill the offlaner if he's out of position but roaming mid is something so much more suitable for Earthshaker since a level 1 stun has such short range.

                                          Tranq -> null -> blink -> euls is good enough. Euls is one of the best support items in the current meta because you have a pseudo-disable that counter-initiates on Void/Doom until they get bkb and the mana regen is amazing. Further items are veil/ghost (EB)/sheepstick/BKB/force staff/linkens depending on the game. I agree Aghs is overrated but if you need some extra stats and damage in a pinch against non-BKB heroes it could work (such as killing a split pushing furion, broodmother without BKB, etc.)

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                                          ★n7k1
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                                            epsik-kun

                                              In terms of damage, Veil is always better than Aghs, 'cuz you'll do dat Burrowstrike after Epicenter.

                                              Welt aus Eis

                                                lots of people have more knowledge than skill, simply because getting knowledge is easier.

                                                to understand the mechanics and knowing all the effects, cooldowns, combos etc you just need to read, search, watch and even play.

                                                to be a good player skillwise it takes experience and a strong sense of self-critique (i dont even know if this is correct, fuck my english)

                                                epsik-kun

                                                  I think, the problem of the mankind is not Justin Bieber, it's prejudices of mentally weak part of it when it comes to ponies.

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                                                  Jʌy Δshʙoʁnɘ

                                                    Pretty much what sano said.

                                                    Also, brown boot > Blink > stick/wand > veil > agh

                                                    #12

                                                      no aghs just make shiva's after veil, or buy a ton of blue eye ball sticks and just clear + spawn block the other teams jungle. then don't let the other team get any farm out of it for the rest of the game. what do people think about E blade?