General Discussion

General DiscussionA Question About Lion

A Question About Lion in General Discussion
Meganesta

    I recently playing him, and noticed that hes much easier to play and win in my bracket due to Spike and hex, and never flamed KS when i got kill from finger. The question is
    1. Spike or Hex first and why? i think 4 sec hex is a massive
    2. Why people get +70 dmage talent rather than +15% slow, i mean he wont right click that much
    3. Did u always get agh after getting all of needed utility item?
    Cherrs guys

    Gard Pedersen

      cherrs bro

      Meganesta

        :') :')

        Androgynous

          1. depends on a lot of things, not all situations are the same, so you have to look at the circumstances. that's the point of "real time" strategy games.

          e.g.
          • hex is instant but spike has longer range, sometimes you aren't in range for hex so you have to stun first.
          • hex being instant makes it better vs linkens / bkb
          • hex is single target but spike is aoe. if you're worried about enemy teammates following up then hex first and saving stun if someone shows up means you can potentially stun both your initial target and his backup
          • if you need to mana drain the target, 4s hex > mana drain > stun > mana drain results in more mana drained than stunning first if you want to chain stun. some games you can make a bristle useless in fights by just draining his mana and then ignoring him.

          2. helps you clear out creep waves, as it's basically double damage at that point of the game. showing on a creep wave makes you vulnerable. the quicker you can clear it and therefore less time you are in enemy vision, the harder it is to kill you. this applies to any hero.

          pushing creep waves out makes it easier to make plays, because you either make the enemy come to them, or you can figure out where they are if they aren't showing when creeps are hitting their towers and they aren't defending it.

          if you make an enemy TP back, you can take advantage of their TP cooldown to then pick off someone or take a fight 4v5 on the other side of the map, take roshan etc.

          also every hit counts when going for kills. sometimes that extra damage can be the difference between getting a kill or not early on. you're right in that you won't right click much as a support, but attack damage is less situational than mana drain slow.

          3. items vary from game to game. ask yourself if you only have point booster + 10 str/int/agi finished, is that going to prevent you doing your job. if not, then aghs is usually fine to get.

          e.g. if you keep dying because you don't have force/ghost/glimmer and you have a half completed aghs, then obviously the choice was wrong.

          if the enemy has little catch and it looks like the game is going to be slow and will go late game, then picking up early aghs can help you scale.

          miiigz

            1. Spike or Hex first and why? i think 4 sec hex is a massive
            Generally spike. It adds stun duration and damage, which is huge in lower brackets and laning phase.

            2. Why people get +70 dmage talent rather than +15% slow, i mean he wont right click that much
            15% slow is not that much, and 70 damage can help you farm jungle, even as a support, so you get your items faster.

            3. Did u always get agh after getting all of needed utility item?
            Aghs is a good item on Lion, but as a support 5 you hardly get the money for it after utility items. Some games you even need more than one utility.

            Meganesta

              thank you so much guys.
              anyway in general what min pos 5 should get lvl 6?

              Subhuman players

                minute 10:30, ideally even earlier

                Androgynous

                  oh i didnt even consider that he meant *maxing* hex over spike first lol. thought he meant casting first.

                  max spike most / all of the time because it actually does damage, you can hit multiple units, has longer range, has lower cooldown, and costs less mana. all these things are relevant in the early game.

                  consider that a level 7 lion with 4 spike 1 hex has 5.1s of stun and 260 damage, while lion with 4 hex 1 spike has 5.4s of stun and 0 damage. can you do 260 damage in 0.3 seconds?

                  do you ever see banes max nightmare first, dark willow with cursed crown or lich with sinister gaze? no because they'd be useless.