It depends on your playstyle since you can do magic with both nuker and healer if you know how to play it. I prefer playing nukers because I consider laning very important i.e. I pick Bane and almost always win trading because I play aggressively no matter who I am against. Personally I dislike healers since they lack strong disables that are very important mid to late game. Consider mastering Chen because he will most likely be busted due to having access to both heal and disable.
It depends on your playstyle since you can do magic with both nuker and healer if you know how to play it. I prefer playing nukers because I consider laning very important i.e. I pick Bane and almost always win trading because I play aggressively no matter who I am against. Personally I dislike healers since they lack strong disables that are very important mid to late game. Consider mastering Chen because he will most likely be busted due to having access to both heal and disable.
Thank you for your valuable input!
I can’t play Chen as microing units is not something I enjoy doing. I totally understand your point of view as i’m a Sky spammer and I totally enjoy trading & winning my lane. What my problem is I wanted to pick grimstroke in my last game or sky but both were banned as i have a very high winrate with both but i opted for dazzle and i got mvp with 6x graves saves so we held high ground until Anti mage went online and we won that game. If i had sky or grimstroke I don’t believe we would have held it.
That’s why i’m here debating.
healer mindset:
if i just suck my cores dick, he will be my mmr sugar daddy, right? only if the retard knows how to play correctly.
nuker mindset: if I deplete my enemies resources, this will make the game easier, right?
see the difference? healer = retard who doesn't know how to fight and will likely feed since useless aside from healing / saving teammates.
nuker = chad lina who goes offlane and fucks your carry's day
@Asylum I see your point. I am also bad at microing since I have never put any effort in trying to learn it and it's actually too bad. Chen has been meta staple since 7.20 (or even longer) with winrate over 52% in divine/immortal bracket and I am definitely going to put some effort in learning to play him in near future. I am pretty sure you can hit immortal really fast as a good Chen. On Dazzle: he is semi fine but I consider him a wildcard in most of scenarios - his trading potential early (level 1 and 2, low base hp) is kinda wacky and later in the game his grave will most definitely have at least 1 counter - either Axe or silences. I think Dazzle is way better 4 than 5.
I'd argue healers and nukers overlap depending on the hero.
Oracle is clearly both and so is Dazzle if paired with the right heroes (Brood/Naga etc).
Other heroes can also fit the bill.
Oracle is clearly the best support in game as a p5 if played correctly.
Insane BAT, 480 damage triple nuke lvl 3 (flame > fortune > flame), 100% magic resistance save/disarm, dispel etc.
The kit he has is actually ridiculous. No other hero in the game has access to an offensive and defensive dispel on the same spell AND can do both at the same time.
Chen is already nerfed so much. If they countinue I swear Im not gonna put a single penny more into this game.
btw, i was mostly talking about omniknight in my rant. that hero does LITERALLY NOTHING besides feed gold stacks to enemy teams or stacks to enemy slark
dazzle is a fucking chad
I'd argue healers and nukers overlap depending on the hero.Oracle is clearly both and so is Dazzle if paired with the right heroes (Brood/Naga etc).
Other heroes can also fit the bill.Oracle is clearly the best support in game as a p5 if played correctly.
Insane BAT, 480 damage triple nuke lvl 3 (flame > fortune > flame), 100% magic resistance save/disarm, dispel etc.The kit he has is actually ridiculous. No other hero in the game has access to an offensive and defensive dispel on the same spell AND can do both at the same time.
Great point on Oracle.
I think it's about the pace the game will have depending on the draft and the nature of your pos 1. If you have a greedy lineup that you think will win late game and just has to farm, Imo defensive supports are the best at providing sustain in lane and letting you farm as much as possible, delaying fights, defending towers and saving you from feeding if caught. When you have a "weak now but strong later" team you wanna avoid clashes, so what could an aggressive support bring to the table? Nobody would back them up. On the other hand, if your carry is a lane dominator and can come online early the best choice would be an aggressive support that can amplify the carry's potential, help him not only farm in lane but also kill/zone out the enemies and take over the map pretty soon.
I.e. Forcing a Medusa into early clashes and aggressive trading with a Lina isn't the best scenario, that hero wants to sit in lane and farm. Also I wouldn't pair Ursa with a Warlock, it's not bad but that hero likes lockdowns and chasing, so why not prefer an Ogre. This is what I think in general, of course the overall draft of both teams plays a role. Like, if you have aggressive pos 2 and a strong roamer but a greedy pos 1, in that case I see an aggressive support ganking around and creating space with the offlaners as a good option.
this is such an overly broad question like... jakiro is a lot more than a nuker, he is a good teamfighter, depusher, lane shover, stunner while skywrath is a pick off bursty squishy single target nuker with a silence. they both vaguely do magic damage but are diametrically opposed in the category of magic damage dealer. i guess what i will say is that having a save hero on ur team whether that be through some hero that does a lot of healing like oracle or a shadow demon who has a save but doesnt do healing, regardless of that save spells are super good. idk what else to say.
also skywrath 5 sounds abysmal to me unless its some super niche draft or scenario
I'm gonna put this out there, instead of nuker I'd add a third category that sorta overlaps: disabler. Stuns win games, and some of the stongest supports are those who can lock down more farmed heroes for long periods of time. That's one of the reasons bane has such a high winrate right now.
^
Yeah, I also feel like disablers should be separate, even though you'd mostly see them for the damage. Bane, Lion, Rasta, Grimstroke, Jakiro, yes they do damage, but the lockdown and control they provide is arguably the more important aspects of their kit.
jus play according wat your team needs
if you dun have aura builder den go aura
if u dun have lockdown etc u buy orchid also ok
if u dun have enough dps go dps watever
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Just a topic that’s been on my mind recently. As most of you know the pos 5 is open for a large amount of heroes ranging from damage dealers ( Sky, Jakiro...) to healers with saves (Oracle, dazzle Abaddon).
Now the question that’s been haunting me is which is better in the overall presence?
Now i know both types are unique to the matchups and what not but as a pos 5 player i’m going to be the first pick so i’m asking if generally it’s always favorable to go for the healer type or the damage dealer disabler?