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General DiscussionHidden Pool / Shadow Pool is real

Hidden Pool / Shadow Pool is real in General Discussion
anathema

    I was winning 50% of my games steadily at 3200mmr and then I got LP.

    Now I cannot win a single game. Not a single one. -1000MMR in only one week with 5% winrate. 2200mmr now and I cannot win one game.

    Every game rager feeders or people who clearly have no idea how to play and run down mid. My behavior score is only 7400. It's not that low.

    Meanwhile enemy is always working together, picking well, etc. What is going on?? -1000mmr?

    Kowareta

      third most played hero, techies.
      do u even heard about karma?

      SLQ

        Yea that's how it works, been there (4.3k down to 2.7k). Especially after abandons I've noticed the game becomes even worse and more unplayable than the "normal" hidden pool. Stop playing ranked until you notice a change in the trend and try to raise the bhs in the meantime. GL

        Lex

          Can you link account so we can analize your performance ?

          The amount of delusional crap you guys saying in this thread is out of scale. I've played on my friends account 2,5 k mmr with 5k beh score. I got griefers every game (mute button instantly when someone cry for no reason), but from the moment they notice that you can actually carry them and you provide good dota experience for them, suddenly you get 4 commends after game. I literally played any random hero I liked to, not looking at what is good or not in a specific game and here is the result. I was even drunk and eating pizza at that time.

          https://i.imgur.com/Rv79IZL.png

          If you lose so much mmr its all on you and you probably affect your team in a very negative way somehow. Sometimes its just super bad behaviour like "you stole my creep" and you start flaming the guy for the rest of the game. Some people type whole game why they think that mistake on minute 3 was not theirs. Others have just that irritating playstyle where they afk farm or go farming instead of taking objective when they can and drag the game till 50 + min. Sometimes they TP out for no reason to farm lane when your team is pushing, leaving everyone to die. There are tons of ways you lose such a huge amount of mmr in a short period of time. There is no hidden pool. Its only you and your misbehaviour and your mistakes in a long run. You can blame 1 game but you cant blame every team in every game for 1000 mmr loss. GOSH.

          If you play properly, just basic proper dota. You can get Divine with not much effort. But you have to actually learn basics. People who drop usually learned some mechanics the wrong way and its so rooted in their playstyle and they are so delusional about their team being bad(and not them ofc), that they will stick to their mmrs forever. Or just make trilion of new accounts.

          This comment was edited
          Kazooie

            Noone ever said winning in <5k bh bracket was impossible, just harder. a divine player should have expected high win ratio in lower brackets. whenever u hit low behavior score ur off the forced 50% win rate around where you belong and it will most likely put u back at least a couple of mmr.
            not only you seem to be playing in party queue u also dont even seem to have kda justified to "solo carry" these games.
            currently hidden pooled, again, u get games like this
            archons/new accs in my team, enemy immortal https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/5428365250
            i rather lose in normal queue than drop mmr though

            This comment was edited
            Lex

              "Noone ever said winning in <5k bh bracket was impossible, just harder" Do you have any clue what you are talking about ? Does that mean that games >5k are easier ?

              This picture I uploaded is from last year when I was Ancient 3 on main acc at that time and this particular account was Archont 3.

              "not only you seem to be playing in party queue u also dont even seem to have kda justified to "solo carry" these games." Wow this is pure bullshit. During this streak I played 2 party games in which my "teammates" were dragging me down. KDA? :D Stop being delusional about KDA being a game wining condition.

              HERE : My BB game from this img. Super bad KDA right? xd https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3946205810
              My mates in this game were 3 13 Drow and 4:15 Kotl. "Waow my team so shit, Im in hidden pool. I cant win I lose 1000 mmr" xD

              You guys are delusional AF. Besides I wrote that clearly. Playing that games on Archont I was usually playing with 1 hand and holding Cuba Libre or Capriciosa in the other with my legs on desk. So dont tell me you're in a hidden pool or Gaben be sending mmr assasins. xd

              All you can say is "BUT". BUT Lex you were higher, BUT you played in party (I didint), BUT you you are 5k (I was 4k back then), BUT you dididnt get those animals (I did get them).

              WIth 100% accuracy I can tell that instead of calming the game/people down you put more fire into it whether with poor playstyle, poor behaviour or both + tilted.

              This comment was edited
              Kowareta

                Lex stop wasting your energy for retarded ppl.
                I have 1k behavior smurfs and i even win when im pos 5 (out of token).
                Last time i remeber i lost because of behavior; i had 2 lvl 1 junglers. not sure tho, was the neutral items patch, might be cause of that :))

                They are just special kids, laugh and move on

                Dort

                  is real, happening to me, i gained recently around 700 mmr with like 70% winrate, then suddnly juggernout mid, windranger offlane, disconnection, abbandon, trash talk smurf 0 communication, all lanes always lost etc like i'm in some kind of hidden pool, after gaining 700 mmr real fast now lost 300 mmr in 2 days

                  i have 10.00 behaviour score

                  edit: i just found a game where my offlane picked riki, instant abbandoned the game and uninstalled, i will be back when the matchmaking is improved

                  Kabir singh's bo0ster

                    OP I need a smurf to play on if you are interested in getting 1000 MMR back.

                    This comment was edited
                    SLQ

                      @Lex there's a difference between the usual bad games the hidden pool is full of, where people tilt easily and you need to walk on eggshells, and those absurd streaks of beyond toxic games where you see 1-25 scores after 15 minutes, 2-3 people walking down mid, blocking camps or dual jungling and all. Your argument is reasonable if we're talking about semi-normal games. Tilting doesn't help either of course and fastens the drop, but man imagine how matches have to be for a person to lose 1k-1.5k mmr.

                      Lex

                        This acc that I borrowed was from a friend that claimed the same. „Lex im in shadow pool, its impossible to get out of this trench”. Then I got a streak.

                        Ofc I had to mute some people, calm some people down or just ignore them and let them feed cos someone took his 1 creep. Big ego guys, small penises. These games were not semi normal at all.

                        This comment was edited
                        I'm God's King

                          набить ммр можно только одним гереом )
                          https://ru.dotabuff.com/players/22130102/matches?hero=ogre-magi

                          NineO_OSix

                            when you are in the pool just play 5 man stacks LOL valve cant get you if you choose ur own allies.

                            Kazooie

                              kda on core is game winning condition when u are playing in lower mmr brackets than you are used to yourself. if not then it means that your other teammates in general are doing better than the enemies, which clearly isnt the cause once ur hidden pooled. have very ahrd seeing that acc u seem to be on good but ur not showing the whole activity feed, u sure it was below 5k behavior score or was itaround 5k?

                              Kazooie

                                when ur hidden pooled and queue with other good behavior people valve will still try to get to u by placing u in opposite team a smurf or two.

                                Kazooie

                                  agreed to scar, like that fucker was crying so much he wrote thread about me when i ahd semi good behavior score and got pooled with him. i bet he was so lucky there wasnt someone running down mid from start for a change, blocking jungle camps, abandoning etc.

                                  Kazooie

                                    also nhow did u know it was hidden pooled, at that time there was no displayed behavior score, sure u could use that console setting but im very sure that hidden pool conditions have changed. before <5k behavior score were all pooled together 5-6,5k together, 6,5k+ together, some exceptions were made at times when there were limited people queuing and the lower behavior wscored one had queued for a very long time.
                                    im very certain that things has changed because at my worst days im slightly below 5k behavior score but the games arent as hard as they used to be long time ago.

                                    Kazooie

                                      yo wtf why are u posting a picture of your smurf account to prve the point that u can win in hidden pool?

                                      SLQ

                                        ^that game would have been a typical semi-normal, still winnable hidden pool game if you hadn't turned it into a shitshow. Dedicating a thread to you was the least I could do, fucker :D
                                        @Lex I get your point but I still don't think we're talking about the same type of games.

                                        Kazooie

                                          ^that game wasnt hidden pooled, i told you i had 2 min queue time as safe lane carry that game and u can just compare to the average queuing time for that game so most likely the mid hero wasnt hidden pooled aswell, rather in the around 6k behavior scored aswell.
                                          a hidden pooled game is when u, i preassume ur still like 3k behavior score, are pooled with similar low variance behavior scored people.
                                          thats when u get those shit games when theres always someone searching for some excuse to ruin a game even before game starts

                                          hidden pool is very misused term used by many people not even knowting there is a deeper black hole than dota in general already is

                                          This comment was edited
                                          Kazooie

                                            "If you play properly, just basic proper dota. You can get Divine with not much effort. " 10k games on the two accounts he openly shares to be his, and aslo seems to be playing lots on other peoples accounts.
                                            KEKW

                                            Lex

                                              Klippan why are you so retarded? What is the point of your argument? I play on my alt where I have all cosmetics.

                                              Proof of hidden pool or it didint happen. You are just matched with people with low beh score. Thats it, end of story.

                                              If i drop below 9k beh score there is already a significant difference in game experience, not to mention some 5kish.

                                              This comment was edited
                                              Kazooie

                                                what is your point of argument in showing that u can have 15 win streak on lower mmr accounts? i had 15 win streak on this acc not too long ago either like i dont understand how it has anything to do with shadow pool. it seems like u and your friend misunderstanding the term shadow pool and nothing else.

                                                Kazooie

                                                  what ur kinda saying is that even an idiot like yourself can manage divine after 10k games its nothing new and is completely unrelated to shadow pool. low mmr games isnt the same thing as shadow pool even though your friend seems to think that the reason he dont win in low mmr games is because hes getting the worse teammates.
                                                  why do u have all your cosmetics on your alternative account? i thought u ran a big company so paying a lil bit extra cash for skins instead of grinding battle pass levels on main acc wouldnt be any problem?
                                                  it seems to me like u dont want more games on your main until u hit immortal because its not looking as good when u have many games on your acc.

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                                                  NineO_OSix

                                                    why do people get so hung up on number of games. Number of games dont mean much as MMR was reset multiple times. Each version patch is completely different from previous patches. Being whatever mmr in patch 6.5 is completely different than being whatever mmr in 7.2. Almost everyone has 1000s of games on some other account but that doesnt mean anything cuz it was played under extremely different environment and rules. Plus with the core and support mmr change plus new calibration plus combination of core and support no thing you did before jan 2020 mattered might as well have started fresh discounting all the previous games you played.

                                                    Only thing that really matter is what medal you have right now in the current patch. Once new patch comes out again it is another reset.

                                                    Kazooie

                                                      i agree that people like kowareta and his dog lex tend to think that everyone is going for TI and get too hung up to games.

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                                                      Kowareta

                                                        totally agree with 9o6
                                                        each patch has their story, ccnc, rtz, sumail, crit dropping ranks in na every time patch changes and new leaderboard players shine. u know dota is about patches and not about adoption/understanding. some ppl are good at certain patches and others suck ass when a hero getting +1 armor

                                                        what a fucking big moron you are :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

                                                        ETdAWESOME

                                                          @Kowa
                                                          You have 1K behavior score smurfs? Isn't your main 3K behavior score or something

                                                          Kowareta

                                                            When i used to play on smurfs i was 6k behavior on my main tho.
                                                            I just used to abandon carelessly.

                                                            Kazooie

                                                              @kowa u started hiding sd games? u play alot turbo and dropped alot leaderboard rank

                                                              Dominant Species

                                                                Player wins 10 matches in a row: Finally match making is working correctly and I'll be the immortal rank I deserve in no time.

                                                                Player losses 10 matches in a row: Hidden hero pools! Conspiracy! Gaben is out to get me! Game is impossible!

                                                                Kazooie

                                                                  not like that though 7k behavior score bracket is good enough

                                                                  anathema

                                                                    @Lex

                                                                    I totally get your objective approach to this. And from your perspective I would even agree with you.

                                                                    I think that a 5k player who climbed via mechanics could probably go mid and manage to tilt the enemy team much harder than the players in 7k behavior score. And as a result I think you would end up winning all your games.

                                                                    But I also think that different people are good at the game for different reasons. I have a friend who can't mid and can't carry and is 4k. I also know for certain that he cannot climb on my account. His mechanics aren't that great with last hitting and denying. He is just someone who doesn't tilt and plays well with his teammates.

                                                                    Me on the other hand, I check all the boxes that you mentioned. I tp to lanes when my team is pushing and they die because I know that even with me there we will wipe. Not In a dumb or tilted way, in a "I have much better game sense" way. And whether I go with them or not it always ends up bad when my team wants to push when they shouldn't. I stand by not going in those cases.

                                                                    That was just one example. But a good one because I would often see this happening when watching replays. And no doubt, when I go anyways it always goes just as horribly as you would expect.

                                                                    Imagine you go to your lane and you're doing well but 5 minutes in your team is just crushed in their lanes. Your landing partner feeds and the enemy team is 5 man deathballing about 5 minutes later at the 12 minute mark. You have too many cores with no farm. Even if you won your lane, you're playing from behind and need to rat and defend HG for an hour to win these games.

                                                                    Again, perhaps your mehacincs are just amazing. Link me the match ID (if it's not in the screenshot you linked) And I will confirm if it looks like what I see. I am a rational person and will concede you are correct if you can prove to me you are really in the same pool as me.

                                                                    Kowareta

                                                                      look buddy, if your friend cant win 2k-3k games as 4k mmr player it only and just only means he is not a 4k player. thats all.

                                                                      the only way to be Xk mmr is being able to beat X-1k mmr games. no way around it.

                                                                      anathema

                                                                        Also, I've thought of a very easy way for you to prove you have a hidden pool account.

                                                                        First, show conduct summary where you are reported for bad gameplay. Then, go into a few games intentionally playing low impact early game. You should be able to easily show that your team is behind at this point.

                                                                        Because if I play jungle (for example) the game is over by 15 minutes every single time. Compare this to a high behavior account where occasionally my mid will win their lane and the game will drag out long enough for me to come online.

                                                                        Simply play a jungler Inna few games to prove it. By 20 minutes your team will be afk. Then proceed to stop your next few games In a row. And then I'll believe every word you wrote

                                                                        Kowareta

                                                                          this guy wants to play jungle in ranked game and his team not tilt/throw
                                                                          holy shit :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

                                                                          anathema

                                                                            I never said that I want to jungle in ranked doofus. I asked this guy who claims to be able to win games in shadow pool to utilize jungle. But fine here is another way.

                                                                            Go safelane carry. If you notice that at 15 minutes your mid and offlane can never win their lanes you are in shadow pool. Just make sure you do not rotate as a safelaner. Pick something that likes to statically farm their lane. Watch and see how your mid and offlane lose and beg for rotations 15 minutes into every game.

                                                                            Kowareta

                                                                              did u consider visiting doctor for your mental health?

                                                                              Daily dose of dopamine

                                                                                Your MMR/medal are rough representation of your skill. While you might be 3.5k player who's in reallity a 3.8k-3.9k player, there's no such thing as 3k player stuck in 3k and actually deserving 4k or more.

                                                                                Being 3500 or 4000 is just in your head, rather than trying to actually grind for the number, grind because you've gotten better at the game.

                                                                                Or just accept the fact, unless, you put a lot of effort in the game, you're not going to get much better.

                                                                                Behavior score will certainly help you a bit, but unless you're 5k ,you ain't gonna grind 1000 points by having high coduct summary.

                                                                                anathema

                                                                                  Lol nobody is even responding to my points just trolling so I guess this is /thread then

                                                                                  anathema

                                                                                    And to the guy above...

                                                                                    Yeah ok man. I get it. A ton of people come here and they just want to cry and complain or blame teammates.

                                                                                    no. I accept I'm just bad at this game and it's totally fine. To be honest with you higher behavior score never did mean I won a bunch of games.

                                                                                    The thing is the games so get now are not even fun games of DotA 2. They are complete and utter stomps.

                                                                                    I'm simply baffled (not sure if that is the right word) at the extreme imbalance in my games. Honestly, I think if you took another 3k player and out them in my position they also would not be able to win any of these games. Does that mean a 5k player could? Absolutely.

                                                                                    I'm just more interested in understanding why these games are like this. And even more interested in seeing someone actually WIN one of these. That would be impressive. And yeah I know some of you could do it with your eyes closed. So post me an account. I want to see it.

                                                                                    るBeoWulf

                                                                                      Why don't you link your account so we can have better info to analyze?

                                                                                      zbt.com_psycho~神戸

                                                                                        If you're losing games and below 50% winrate, its actually your fault and it means you don't belong in that bracket.
                                                                                        Nothing more, nothing less.
                                                                                        People most of the time put blame on to something other than themselves of losing.
                                                                                        If you just gonna blame your teammates every time just play another game, something like a 1v1 game so you couldn't blame anyone but yourself.

                                                                                        Simping for booty #;)

                                                                                          Hihihi, if your mid and offlane can't win by 15 minutes it's shadowpool? And if you're jungling and your mid isn't winning then it's shadowpool? Hihihihi if they are winning it means they are better than the enemy and the winning conditions are better for your team. I've have had games where lanes were lost at minute ten and my cores cried and the team stayed behind for the entire fucking 50 minutes and had a great team fight and win from there, so for the first 10 minutes have I been in the shadowpool? I mean according to your great research and experience, those are the two examples you gave. You don't have to humble yourself by saying you're bad at this game to get more backing!

                                                                                          anathema

                                                                                            I don't claim that if in a single game your team is behind it is shadow pool. That would be idiotic.

                                                                                            I'm talking about a systemic, continuous series of games where your team continuously fails to pull their weight despite (statistically speaking) your midlaner should win 50% of the time. It's blood simple. If a random mid plays another random mid and both are the same mmr you would expect the winrate to be 50% over a substantially large sample size. Now imagine playing 50 games in a row and your midlaner gets dunpstered in 35 of them and loses moderately in 40 of them. Winning or drawing even only 20%.

                                                                                            That is the sort of game series I am talking about. And it only happened after I got put into LP. Before this I was playing amazing games of DotA 2 that were fun and close games.

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                                                                                            Kowareta

                                                                                              either give us the account friend id or shut the fuck up already.

                                                                                              SLQ

                                                                                                OP they'll never understand until they go through it themselves, don't waste your time

                                                                                                るBeoWulf

                                                                                                  Why not help us to understand better by linking your account? So many people have asked you but u never even address or acknowledge this issue. Can you then blame the answers and widespread disbelief you are getting?

                                                                                                  Do you seriously want to prove your point or not? What gives man?

                                                                                                  Kowareta

                                                                                                    u know, if something totally random like an earthquake happen, there are some stupid ppl who say god (!!!) punished them for their sins. i dont know where is this merciful god at when kids in africa starving to death, but it makes sense for those ppl that there is a god who punish ppl for their sins
                                                                                                    so yeah, goodluck expecting these ppl have any point, this is what it is, humanity cant accept random events and try to give meaning to meaningless stuff.

                                                                                                    they just lack brain and cant see the big picture. if they see 10 heads in a row they bet all their money on head while its still 50-50 chance :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

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                                                                                                    SLQ

                                                                                                      No there are specific patterns when it comes to matchmaking, which change based on behavior score, lp and abandons. How can you even be so retarded to think that it's equal for everyone. There's a difference between 10k and 4k bhs and there's a difference between the games of people who get abandons or end up in lp and those of people who don't. Imagine low bhs games, which are already toxic, PLUS the punishment of having been in lp or having abandoned. Playing becomes literally pointless. And it's logical, the system is made to "promote" good behavior by punishing those who in one way or the other don't behave, but man does it take too far, it becomes game breaking basically.

                                                                                                      Kowareta

                                                                                                        i just dont know who to trust here, my own experience from 900 mmr to 6k with <6k behavior all along, or others??

                                                                                                        when u play a game for 10k hours of course there going to be repeating patterns, its how randomness works, every thing going to happen. u give meaning to it for no reason, it just happened.

                                                                                                        if u generate random binary sequence, there going to be 00,01,10 and 11 patterns repeated over and over again. even tho the fucking generator is totally random, ITS GOING TO HAPPEN!
                                                                                                        but a biased person like you, just only pays attention to 00 ones, oh god i generated 1k length seq and 00 happened again and again,
                                                                                                        yes sherlock, it should be happened!!!! it should repeated otherwise it wasnt random in first place.
                                                                                                        question is, is it happening more than 11? NO. u are just biased against it.
                                                                                                        my games are got carried by good midlaners as much as they got ruined by bad ones. i had lose streaks after lp, but i had winstreaks too.

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