A really good early game item to get on him is Drums, but mostly if your supps don't buy it...
Drums are more int-focused now (you're paying a lot for intelligence), so I wouldn't recommend them. If u want an item that does the secondary objective of boosting ck's mana pool, then going for echo-sabre (or even atos!!) is a better option
Most people I see build Echo into SnY then Armlet, then disassemble SnY for Manta and Heavens Halberd after that usually only HoT. Sometimes in there if needed you can get a Diffusal Blade. And I don't know about other people but usually get Midas just for the levels. Not so much for the gold...
Hmmm... my take would be if one is making both echo and SnY then skip armlet perhaps.... esp if bkb is needed sooner. Needing diffusal blade would be pretty sad indeed, I would much rather try to disengage and lock a different target when an enemy goes ethereal rather than waste a slot on an item that's only there to counter ghost scepters. (ck has no use for the slow of diffusal blade, echo slows as well)
anyway, I was hoping for some quantitative comparisons between the items, ie in terms of str, hp, dmg, attck speed etc.
Armlet then Echo Sabre if no Midas
If you went Midas, you will have to choose one of the 2000+g cores, and I usually pick Echo because Armlet doesn't regen mana
Then I get SnY because it's the easiest to build
Diffusal blade is bad now, the illusion burns less mana
I got bashed by the forum for Midas and SnY though. Well, I did say Armlet sucks which is my bad.
Go demo mode with Free Spell on and use ult repeatedly, yeah they will remove the prev illus.
I would prefer getting an early Armlet into Heavens Halberd as the active from the Armlet and Evasion from Halberd make for some pretty tanky illusions. You would come online a lot faster because, as you said, you don't really need the slow from Echo Sabre or the movespeed from SnY and with the money you save from not purchasing those, around 2600 I believe, you are already over half way to a HoT. Along with with not getting the SnY or Manta you don't really need them as you hit harder than a truck (multiple trucks) and your illusions don't benefit from the attack speed, only from the agi you get with the item, which isn't much.
Edit:
I don't know if I am doing a good job with this quantitative comparison or not. I'm just trying to help a brother out...
On ck manta is a million times better than s&y so only build if you will disassemble into manta + halberd.
Just go echo, armlet in some order, manta, heart imo.
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/chaos-knight/guides?page=2
manta is situational, you only buy it if you have to remove silences. you get halberd now most of the time, since its cheap, gives good stats, and screws enemy cores. at the time you get halberd after armlet, most other cores dont have their bkb yet.
How is manta situational on a guy who builds stats for illusions and has a skill that teleports all his illusions to the target?
manta illusions are weak as fuck, they get killed almost instantly. so you get manta to purge debuffs, not
to deal damage with illus. the illusions are just an extra.
it costs too much mana, the stats arent that great. if you have any right clicking enemy core, the value of halberd is much greater. halberd is much cheaper, gives 20 strenght (compared to 10 strength of manta) which is the stat you want to increase primarly.
if you have a PA or AM or ursa or sven in enemy team and you get a halberd after armlet they have no solution to it until they farm bkb (even then only if they activate it before you disarm them) which means theyll avoid fighting you, and you can go take towers freely (whuch is what you want to do with ck)
i dont even know man i provided you a link which shows that many 5k+ players prefer halberd and only take manta if they have to purge stuff. ofc manta is also a good item but it isnt a core item anymore
i dont know why players with 8 CK games and a 30% winrate think they should give their opinion on uitem builds
I usually go echo into armlet, because that's around the time I get to level 12. I usually go heart pretty soon afterwards because I'm terrible with armlet toggling and just like leaving it on all the time.
from what i saw in professional dota ck play was treads armlet into hyperstone (later AC i assume) and then whatever u want
idk i sort of built drums when i played him coz he needs the stat it offers but idk if its good
I feel like the only situations you get manta in are when you get an early SnY so you have a yasha just lying around, and when the enemy team's heavy on annoying shit that manta would help aagainst, like silences or strong slows/dots.
I almost never get to play pos 1 in ranked (because as a supp player my profile is labeled with 300 GPM) but I do play CK occasionally in smurf acc :P
Sorry for the shitty winrate hehehe
I like to go echo first as it helps farm jungle a bit faster also in my mind usualy once you get echo you start putting points in your lifesteal passive which synergizes somewhat with the armlet.
you cant just say "i like bsj's build"
when he skipped armlet, went for shadowblade and bkb.
in most games this will make you loose, but he skipped armlet because of AA, manta also makes no sense so he went bkb
manta is only a good pickup if you are already winning (debuff removing excepted). the enemy will be drafted/itemised to deal with a clumped up illusion army already and, if they can deal with your ulti, manta illusions are useless. if they can't deal with your ulti then you've won.
yeah, manta is not core on ck, but good later on when you already have heart and AC, and optionally bkb.
Obv, going the S&Y route means you are planning to disassemble into halberd and manta later on, since both items give utility to ck
How much is echo saber beneficial exactly? Is the instant double attack worth so much to pass over an armlet or halberd? Because I'd say getting not more than 2 of these items (armlet, echo, halberd) is best. Getting all 3 would delay the heart AC and bkb pick up too long
Echo Sabre just fits in, mana regen damage STR attack speed double hit
It's a whole package
Btw i just tried drums echo shadowblade yasha then manta or SE, builds smoothly and no mana issues
I generally get halberd over echo sabre now but I definitely miss the extra mana. I think atos is probably better than echo sabre now but never tried it.
^I tried atos and the double bracer build up is nice since you can go in lane with bracer and tangoes, and ofcourse atos active is great and all....
BUT
echo's instant repeat hit is pretty good for ck. makes it far better than atos imo
^it is also prevents enemy from getting from his illusions, that is why it makes sense
@killstealreporter
I mean I was watching him playing that game and he said himself that he prefers echo 95% of the game, not because AA
I haven't tried the build out myself, so I don't know how it actually feels, but it looks good on paper to me. I believe the echo sb makes his playstyle similar to slark's and as @Into the Window said, echo gives everything ck needs....
Again I'm not saying it's the best build so far cos I haven't tried it out myself that's why I didn't write any analysis about the build on the previous comment (and ck is not my hero as well).
Also, I'm pretty sure something like avoiding armlet against AA is a simple knowledge that most people know, so.. if you took your time and think a little bit, how on Earth could I overlooked something as simple as that and posted the match for op #feelsoffendedman xd
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Anyone up for some quantitative analysis? I'm at work so I don't have time, but it'd be great if someone can compare the following items for CK after treads and wand/bracer (midas optional) are completed:
1. Armlet
2. Echo Saber
3. Heaven's Halberd
4. Sange & Yasha
Also explain if one should pick one from these items, or 2 or even 3.
I like to go treads, midas, and then armlet/halberd