General Discussionsupports heroes that translate well into the late game

Please forgive my grammar mistakes :)

Silencer?

Silencer omni abaddon Vengeful

iam sorry buts its impossible. if u play u supp right u will get no last hit and should "waste" your gold for wards and supp items.
if you dont do that you make your carry weaker and maybe useless. maybe you will win sme games as support carry but in the end you will have a worse win rate than you would play your role correctly.

so my advice is to play a semi carryor ganker like wk or slark

omni, cuz u can carry the team with it. ppl on 2k mostly play hitter, try to master it.

You want a support that can be played as a core or just supports that don't fall off late? There's a big difference. Core implies they can dmg towers and carry teams. Not many can do that. Silencer can just cus if he steals enough int he gets a lot of dmg late, necrophos can though he is a more natural carry than support, some teams push him into support role and eventually when he has farmed an aghs and shivas he can be strong. Shadow shaman cus of wards and tower dmg, witch dr can wipe teams with aghs.

silencer , naga , abaddon

ancient apparition is pretty good in lategame, too

venge

if u play u supp right u will get no last hit and should "waste" your gold for wards and supp items.

except in the <2k bracket most people can't or don't farm anyway. Most carries will only get 30 or so last hits in the first ten minutes; they leave half the last hits on the field. Just take them. Nobody else is taking them.

look at the last hits at ten minutes across mmr brackets on the meta page. An average <2k Sven is getting 31 last hits in the first ten minutes. In the 5k+ bracket, they're getting 68 last hits in the first ten minutes. In the <2k bracket, Sven is already missing half of the farm that's there. If you're supporting, your motivation isn't "never last hit", it's "don't last hit something the carry is obviously going for". Half the time the carry will walk home or spend a bunch of time running in circles or really slowly shop at the side shop or some other dumb shit. Half the time if you start harassing, your carry will follow you and try to fight the enemy instead of using that space to farm.

Check out Venge's last hits on that same table. 12 lh@10m in <2k, 7 in 5k+. So an average Sven+Venge safelane is getting a total of 43 last hits in <2k, 75 in 5k+. Sven isn't missing those last hits in the low mmr brackets because the supports are "stealing" them; he's missing them because <2k players don't farm well.

In low mmr, supports have comparatively more farm than in higher mmr. You might as well put that gold to use. In the <2k mmr bracket, you can easily get 20-25 last hits in the first 10 minutes as a support without negatively impacting your carry, because there's a lot of farm that they're ignoring completely.

anyway, Vengeful Spirit.

OHH MYY GODD hahahaha this is the reason why lol is born for toxics like u man
aba and lencer does transist well into carry in late game
what do u expect you just go into late game and switch treads ? of course you need farm first to transist i cant even understand ur logic

abaddon support doesnt translate well into the lategame, cz ur itemization is awful for lategame. otherwise, u r either building him incorrectly and fucking up early game, or you are not a support at all.

if you play supp right u will get no lasthits

ure talking nonsense abba is garbage late game his coil is totally useless and his shield gets removed in 1 hit, serving merely as a stun remover
and no he doesnt transition into late carry even if he wants to because he doesnt have any good farming skills
dont agree with ur point = toxic LMFAO.

CK

@TripleSteal-
"difference between a good support and a bad support is that the decent one is able to find farm for himself without stealing it from someone else"
What? 95% of support's farm are assists, kills and towers.

watch comp dota from players perspective and keep attention to what they are doing when they are not ganking or warding. pubstar supports do it even more greedy cz cores here are less efficient in farming and u kinda got more space.

^In competitive DOTA 2 I often see supports with only brown boots after 30+ minutes.

i dont think it happens anywhere besides one-sided matches tbh

chaos knight, i always initially play him as support. All you need is manggo

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/307935706/matches?date=&hero=chaos-knight&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any&timezone=Asia%2FBangkok

yeah like playing a bounty hunter, spectre and drow can be played like this too

but its more like a carry hero that can played as support early game

Aghs Shadow Demon with Purge and break is great late game against the standard <2k carries.
Aghs Abaddon is great for aiding allies that are getting beat on. Not to mention, his Aphotic Shield dispels most hard disables, so you can turn the tide of a team fight if you throw it on a disabled carry right away. Abaddon is definitely relevant in late game, at least at our level.
If you look at Abaddon's most common items, Radiance is working it's way too the top. Maxed curse with basher and a couple attack speed items is no joke.

warlock is really good if you wanna go with a support late game.. if you dont die in fights you get a lot of gold.. and ag refresher should wreck <2k mmr.. make midas

Agreed w/ Mike. 4 demons makes the enemy team run around like chickens. I know this from experience. . .

I'd say heroes like omniknight are highly underrated in that regard, basically a 12 second magic immunity and 10 seconds of physical immunity as well with aghs is always gonna stay relevant.

@scarps
I couldnt agree more. when i start harassing, the carry tend to follow.. i watch some pro games where supports making spaces which i did try them in games but with unfortunate result. While my income is heavily effected ,the carries also didnt make the most of it resulting overall low gold diff. There are also games where supports are messing with carries farm. Which makes me think of playing a support that can translate into core or still relevant with those axcess gold

Bounty Hunter, gank all day every day, you get rich without the need to last hit much because of your ult giving you (and your allies) tons of gold. Even when you spend tons of gold buying team items (Arcane Boots, Mek, Vlad, etc) you still can afford wards. Just remember to check your enemies inventories constantly to scout for dust and sentries, once you build Greaves you can purge the dust. And please, build him as a support, he's MUCH better as a roamer than a pseudo-carry with Desolator, Battlefury or whatever people build on him.
There's also always Venge, Lion, Shaman who don't need many items to be relevant but become super good when they can afford stuff like Aether Lens, Aghs and such.

pls tell if iam right.
we discuss about the situation that someone pick a support and playing him for 15 or 20 minutes as support. after thise time he think "oh my carry cant win thise game... so no i think i have priority and make lh and buy carry stuff. good that i have picked (for example) silencer. he could be a nice late game hero!"

iam sorry but wtf. i mean the enemy carry will have a higher networth, maybe more exp, more kills and yeah he is playing a carry and not a support who is good in late. and than you think u really will get a comeback that you as support can carry your team?
Maybe u will win some of such games but come on it is mch better to pick a support who is a good combination with the rest of your team or counter the enemy than to hope to can change the match like thise.

if you really afraid of thise situation play an initiator like enigma. a good black hole can win a game without change your role.

Check out my last game on necro
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2295873562/builds

might be better to pick a big aoe spell hero and play them as a pos4/5 like ES or Tide or whatever

@The High Sparrow
And? Your team was leading the hole game. You didnt change your gamestyle because your carry was losing. maybe you switched because u known that u will win thise game doesnt matter what you do or buy. or do you played necro from beginning more like a carry but than i would say its nt the best pick.

@Atmosphere
thats right

Alch naga wk, 3 supports than potentially can carry if need be.

@Scor
Even a support Dazzle can buy Daedalus for example and start dealing damage with it.

^he is right
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1109394514

First, in almost all scenario you need to be a 4 position support to become a carry later

- zeus, you just need lens and veil to become a core, and you save gold cuz you dont need so many sentries
- heroes with insane tf lategame ults like disruptor with aghs or wyvern or enigma, i dont count things like wd ult that can be countered with just armor. these heroes cant hit towers but insane tf can carry games ;)
- silencer, free stats lategame hits like a truck
- naga, pull off a radiance of your ass at 35 mins get 6 slotted in the next 15 or 20 mins and outcarry everybody

OGRE MAGI people underestimate him. a stun, a slow, a good buff, and the best ulti in the game. very tanky so if you make mistakes you are a lot less likely to die

Can you guys stop telling OP about supports that transition well into the lategame by "becoming a carry"? That only creates a wrong mentality. Very good support players are able to carry games by themselves without going out of their role's boundaries, even if they end up in lategame.

@soultrap
yes but if dazzle start to farm daedalus about minute 10 or 15 and complete it between 25 and 30 he has to deal against a speter with vang, radiance, diffusial and 2 levels more.
dazzle will make damage but in most cases (i dont want to say all) he wont carry his team to victory.

The point is: Sometimes u will be the game changer and u can win such games and than u think that you are the best Player and without thise dicision you would lose thise game. But on the other hand u will lose much more games because u pick wrong heroes (because u need a good late game support if your carry is bad) and games you could have a comeback if you would play your role correctly.
But you will think that you lose thise games because your carry is bad. The funny thing is that your carry maybe could be good if he had a good supporter...

Who is stronger 6-slotted Spectre or 6-slotted Dazzle?

And what is best itembuild for Dazzle? (obviously Dazzle with 6 rapiers can easily beat spectre, so lets exclude this)

@Scor if you look at the match, i supported CK in lane, got almost no CS, bought courier, wards etc. Mekanism... ultimately ended up with a radiance in 36 mins.

The point is, necrophos should be on the list of heroes who can invest in the team as an early (ideally not only) support but transition to carry late game if needed, or even if it just happens...

Visage is great late game if you learn how to micro his birds. Other choices for late game supports are things like Omniknight, pugna, Abaddon, venge.

Visage is a really strong lategame support because he can dish out a lot of damage or offer a lot of utility and lockdown or even tank for the team if built right. I remember carrying quite a few deadweight teams by simply being good at visage.

@The Hight Sparrow
Yeah and you couod it because your team was leading. In the situation that the enemy team would be leading it would be better to support your spec to close the gap than to steal his farm to build items on necro.