If its not on Dotabuff, its on Reddit.... Everyone at 2k thinks they should be 4k, or I've seen plenty people posting their smurfs asking "how do I get calibrated at 5k when they're in normal skill bracket.... I don't get why everyone thinks they can magically jump mmr.
I love the paradox that people believe MMR hell is real and at the same time there is an industry of boosters who stomp low-level games.
is this team or solo que.
I have an account at 5k, and an account at 3.2k, I find 3.2k is a terrible mmr because to win.... you need to have the mentality of "I am going to carry these 4 worthless scrubs" where as 5k, people actually pay attention enough to make plays and combo's etc.
There is definitely something to s*it tier mmr range.
i hate that I have to q Europe to get ranked matches with 300 ping minimum, and I play support, and my team feeds. :-) I think ill just play unranked.
What I see as MMR hell is this.
I'm possibly a 1.5-2k player ATM (I'm probably not even that high).... Nothing special but I understand the game and some of its unique interactions (not all but some) however I calibrated at the 500 MMR range
What I find here are people who don't understand the game at all.
They don't communicate, gankers don't gank, supports never buy wards and if they do they don't place them, I see an easy kill IF YOUD JUST TURN AND USE YOUR STUN YOU USELESS EXCUSE OF A LION, (don't rage it doesn't help anyone), but sadly kindly suggesting things won't work either.
The problem this tends to create is I'm out playing my opponents but my advantage is being taken away by easy kills being botched by someone who isn't good enough to realize it was a kill. Or mistakes for myself because I'm simply NOT a pro player. So ultimately while I'm outplaying and winning some games after a couple in frustrated making it worse causing me to lose.
I'm slowly gaining MMR but because of this cycle (bad players all around and rising frustration levels) it goes slowly THATS what creates the feeling of an "MMR hell"
There is no place where you CANT climb to a higher MMR by being better. But there are places where if your slightly better (say 1k Max) higher it's DIFFICULT to QUICKLY gain the MMR
woa, u have a huge sized pair of balls in ur pants, bragger.
Referring to ur links: I remember March being a very good month for me, too. Maybe lots of chinese treasure farmers on EUW, who fed me. I also climbed 800 soloq mmr. Now im stuck and dont move forward anymore. Partly because I have been playing too much in party and got used to teammates, who cooperate well.
Here comes the whining part:
I got very toxic yesterday. First i made +50mmr. It went really well. I was happy. and then -125mmr. I mean sometimes I play like shit, too. For example in my yesterdays silencer game, i did some shitty misplays - but not the game ruiner kind. But the rest of yesterdays games.. for the first time i thought that I performed well enough helping my team into a promising position, but could not win cuz another lane/player was losing too hard.
@Fuzzyfoot
I find that hard to believe, as a 4k i boosted a 3k account to 4k, and whenever i play with my 3k friends i stomp, maybe its cause i went from 2k to 4k so i know how to abuse their lack of knowledge/skill but...
If you have problems winning at 3k bracket, your true mmr is very far from 5k, possibly abused mmr calibration system or bought the acc.
@strategiccheese - you're right when you describe your mmr as a range - there is an uncertainty and yes, if you are playing a game in the middle of your mmr range then you won't be good enough to carry you team. however, if your mmr was 1000 higher than the average of the match, you would most likely 1v5 and you wouldn't care that lion didn't stun because you are so far ahead in farm it doesn't matter.
the reason you need lion is because your true mmr is only slightly higher (and not game-changingly higher) than his.
I've been jumping around 2.7kish mmr lately, and I say I know I could be 3k+ but I just don't have time to commit with a full time job and stuff :(
do like me bro, get fired from your job then you can play whole days.
From 2.8k to 3.4k; I hope someone will recrut me so I can win money with dota; I need food :(
^ No one but you can see your solo and party ratings, use windows snipping tool to capture the table them upload it to postimg or tinypic.
Also well done Dan, nice to see you climbing and yes it's all about attitude once you hit into the mid 4K region you just have to remain positive.
I don't know, I have gained about 800 mmr this month, and it gets better as I get higher. But as I was around 600 mmr it really was true hell. The games seemed 50/50. I don't think a 2k player is good enough to dominate every game at that level but maybe a 5k player would sure.
^That is just directed at the 1k higher and you should dominate comment.
yeah maybe you are right - perhaps you need to be a certain mmr before you are aware enough to exploit people's mistakes sufficiently - its probably more accurate to say >4k and you should be able to dominate all <3k games.
For those, who got calibrated <1k, how i dealt with it:
1. Pick Lycan
2. Go jungle
3. Rush Vladimir's offering
4. Buy PT
5. Push towers and farm Necronomicon to push harder
6. You can buy AC+Desolator
7. Win the game.
P.S.
Don't fight enemies. Ever (ok, may be you can steal a frag or two). Only splitpush. You'll win 8/10 games esly.
I agree. Pushing heroes are the easiest for rising out of sub-1k. This is because towers are not effectively defended by any sub-1k teams and you will get farm without lasthitting skill. I think NP is the best choice.
There will come a point when such tactics are insufficient to win, but at below average MMRs (< 2.3k) the main obstacle is item progression. The biggest weakness of players at this point is that they cannot lasthit creeps so the team that gets items due to various accidental feeds will begin to win the game just because they have items. If you are in this situation figure out how to play a hero who can get a lot of farm without skill. This means either an efficient jungle hero, or flash farming hero.
A jungling hero needs to clear at least 2 camps per minute. Once you have figured out exactly how to do this for your jungler, almost anyone is capable of executing jungle farming - no precise timing or positioning is required. Even if you want to stack a camp you have about a 2 sec window to do it so you can be drunk and still get it right, just look at the clock. To flash farm a wave you set it up typically with a few attacks, then use a spell to get all the lasthits and quickly move on to another wave of creeps or rotate back into the jungle. This also removes the "skill" requirement of farming and replaces it with knowledge of a technique.
Some heroes are very easy to use for this, for instance Sand King with caustic finale + burrow strike can clear any size creep wave getting all the lasthits in a few seconds. Even if you screw it up you will still be almost certain to get 3/4 of the creeps which is vastly more than the average dota player can get lasthitting.
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/farm Technically it is possible to farm about 80 creeps in ten minutes in just one lane, but the highest average any hero achieves is 50.57 for Nature's Profit. In fact 102 heroes average less than half of the possible farm from 1 lane. And 37 heroes average less than 1/4 of the lasthits. So there is a huge amount of farm missed, the gold just falls out onto the bloodly ground wasted in an average pub game.
If you can't lasthit well enough to matter, and if you are below 4k MMR its pretty much certain that you can't - then learn a flash farming technique and enjoy actually getting core items before 20 minutes so there is a chance for you to do something other than get rolled by the fed heroes from the other lanes.
i think that as long as you're averaging >60% wr on certain heroes in solo queue, you'd be able to climb the ladder in no time.
MMR HELL IS REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
this guy droped from 7300 to 6400
60% is a slow climb.
If you win 60% of games, after 10 games you are up 50 MMR. It takes 200 games to gain 1k MMR at this rate.
If you play a 70% winrate hero you gain 100 MMR every 10 games and need only 100 games for a 1k MMR rise.
If you win merely 55%, it takes 400 games to go up 1k MMR.
400 games of spamming a hero is a serious dedication to gaining MMR over just playing dota, meanwhile there are over 100 heroes you don't get to play because you made MMR so important.
I've got 22 heroes with 60% winrate or higher currently. I know that if you do spam those heroes as they rise your winrate drops so a 60% winrate hero will actually take much more than 200 games to gain 1k MMR because after you have gained the first 500, your winrate may have dropped to 55% - and if you are at 60% winrate now, you may be only 800 MMR below your max on that hero anyway.
I think in solo queue games i average a winrate of 70%, and it's my pt that's dragging my averages down. Nonetheless, I think what Relentless says here is true, that playing or spamming a hero to gain mmr is somewhat worth it, but you don't get to enjoy the game
@kitrak
I dont know if the system changed, but before you could see several guys who only played with bots to reach xp till lvl 13 then playing calibration matches and getting extremely high mmrs, maybe they limited the calibration to 4.6k and fixed that shit, still, i dont believe a 5k player will have trouble owning in the low 3k bracket, so it raised my suspicion.
Really with all the speculation I'm about ready to just make a smurf and see what really happens myself. It's just so much work to do it and fairly pointless since I'm sure I can get to any MMR between 4k and 0 by choice of hero and just grinding it out - or by intentional failures.
But it might be helpful for people to see the variation all the way through the lower MMR scores. I could try to calibrate as close to 0 MMR as possible and then see if I could win 100 games in a row. Although we know there is an anti-smurf program I don't know exactly how many games it remains on. It might be that if you feed for the first 5 games, you are then locked into super low MMR. Or maybe it keeps allowing for large variations all the way until you calibrate for ranked games.
I don't think there is anything I could do to get much higher than 4k MMR, but I suppose I could try various schemes for that also. Maybe if I played only my best heroes, only during early morning on US west, with Russian language selected my MMR would be inflated to 5k.
I don't think there is anything I could do to get much higher than 4k MMR, but I suppose I could try various schemes for that also. Maybe if I played only my best heroes, only during early morning on US west, with Russian language selected my MMR would be inflated to 5k.
basically dunning-kruger has affected even you?
@Relentless im sorry relentless but try to be realist. you just hit 3.3k in ranked and now you claim you can be ez 5k. its not that easy lol. dont matter if you russian language or morning games... look a 5k game look like this
https://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2015-05-22-6775-mmr-qop-score-511-in-useast-ggwp
I don't believe so. I could be mistaken. But I've played dota for many years now, closing on 8000 games. I think I know what my limits are fairly well. At about 4k MMR I start to lose games due to being slower than other players rather than decision making mistakes, or hero choices.
At mid 3k's when I solo mid I still out last hit the other players fairly easily. At 4k its hard for me to outlast hit an even matchup. If queing party an soloing mid against a 4.5k player I need some kind of advantage to keep up on lasthits. That's a fairly good way to judge where skill based limitations are. Some people are trapped a lower MMR than their skill because of attitude problems or strategic errors they don't recognize. But I don't think that is true in my case. I just get to a point where I can't click quickly an accurately enough to advance, and its around 4k MMR.
Reek if you understand what I wrote: its about how I DO NOT believe I would be able to fake my way into a 5k calibration. I have played games with and against 6k and even 7k MMR players... hundreds of games at 5k MMR level in party games and Team games and it's quite clear I don't belong there and could not hold onto a 5k MMR account if I was given one.
But there are lots of speculations that people are able to use various tricks to calibrate at artificially high MMRs. So I was speculating about how I might go about trying to do it to see if it was really possible.
@reek
You seriously believe that is the best proof of 5k difficulties? That score would be an anomaly at any rank.
Side note avoiding dota on the weekend in my opinion would help anyone interested in climbing. Or at least players that primarily play 3-5 position heroes. Maybe the 1-2's like he weekend increase of stupidity.
but mechanical skills like last hitting are not dependent on physical ability, but muscle memory. People grinding matchups vs other highly skilled players will gain in csing ability over time
i can see how if ur old that could be a factor, but most players are physically capable of playing at that skill level i think
Most players really are not physically capable of playing anywhere near 5k level. That's the Dunning Kruger talking. 5k is roughly the top 0.5% of players. "most" players can't get anywhere near that. "most" can't reach 3k.
And I am old, but it really has nothing to do with age. You will see as time goes on, the pro dota players of today will still be able to be pro dota players in 30 years. Just as with all other physical attributes, abilities, etc people have a wide range of physical parameters. Some people have dramatically better hand, eye, and finger coordination than average people. Those people are 5k + dota players. Often they are almost completely unaware of the reality of the experience of ordinary people because day after day they face similarly skilled opponents, not realizing that while there might be 20,000 players in their region like them - there are 2 million at 2k MMR who will stay there, never rising to 3k.
A creeps hitpoints, early in the game are in the range where you can last hit it for only a fraction of a second. Most people cannot intentionally attack it during that time frame. They will accidentally get some of the last hits, but it will not be greater than the statistical result of autoattacking. In fact at truly "average" MMRs auto attackers will get more lasthits than those who attempt to do it the way a guide tells them. This is because a truly average player cannot perceive fractions of a second and control their fingers to move accordingly. The fact that I can do this, puts me far above average in the 3k to 4k range depending on hero choices.
For instance https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/45726021 ... not a good example of how to play morphling really, but this game does show I can actually lasthit. Most players really cannot. If you pick a 2.3k MMR game (average global MMR), you will see that players do not score more lasthits than they would statistically autoattacking. After the laning stage, as items and levels add attack damage and it becomes easy to flash farm with spells even very low skilled players will eventually get some lasthits. But they won't be getting any early, except by accident.
^
i have ez trick to lasthit. quelling blade and run around the creep till it at 1/8 of his health. i dont run much around him just close. or i hit H for hold position then wait.. wait. and hit gg xd
Take a look at Valve's highscore or Dotabuff's top hero scores. There are only thousands of 5k players and only hundreds of 6k players in the world.
The average dota player can't tell the difference between 1/4 health and 1/8 health in the fraction of the second they have to make the decision. If they take time to take careful aim lot more of them could figure out whether the creep was at 1/4 hp or 1/8 hp. But they don't because there are typically 3 or 4 creeps hitting it each second taking 57 to 95 hp off depending on randomness so a creep can be lasthit correctly, with a typical wimp starting hero attack dmg of 50 for only .4 to .8 seconds. Qblade extends the window for success to .5 to 1.1 seconds making it noticeably easier, but still too hard for most players at early levels.
And that presumes they are unopposed and undistracted. What if someone is trying to stop them from getting it right by dragging agro, harassing, or attempting denies? If you pull up a replay of a 2k MMR game and watch their perspective, and count the actually lasthits they get in the first 6 minutes of the game... you will see they truly can't do it.
Practicing doesn't help because they are practicing missing, rather than practicing hitting.
As for myself, I notice a significant increase in lasthitting ability when I play the same hero several games in a row. But after about 10 recent games on a hero I really don't get any better with more practice. I once played over 100 games of luna in a row in dota 1 and I did not see any improvement after the first several games in my lasthitting.
There is a change, when you try to lasthit against better players who may change their rhythm, change the distance they stand from the creeps, switch agro and so forth. But once you get used to that again after a few games significant improvement stops.
When I watch excellent farming carries the big difference I see in their cs scores results from how well supports controlled the lane to give them space to think about their timing instead of worrying about harassment. But at lower levels controlling the lane well has little impact because people can't latsthit anyway.
It's really easy to climb mmr if you are a good mid / carry. Those who like to play supports mmr hell really exists.
Well you have to play support heroes differently when players are bad. For instance, stacking camps helps a bad carry farm a lot more than zoning the enemy. The bad carry will miss last hits in lane no matter what you do, but he will eventually be able to clear stacks and catch up.
At lower levels you can get away with a lot more as a support hero than at high levels. Enemies rarely are aware that they should attack you just after you used a spell. So you can use spells to harass in lane without being killed for using up your stun, like you would be in a 5k level game. You can bluff your way out of a lot of situations by positioning aggressively, when in a higher level game people would know you are vulnerable and kill you.
In low level games the value of true sight is dramatically higher because so many will use invis to initiate instead of blink. If you adjust and get plenty of detection instead saving for blink you will win. There is no need to blink on low level people, they can't react fast enough if you just walk up anyway. There is no need to smoke, except possibly for some roshan attempts, because people don't check the map. There is little need for obs wards as well because people won't react to enemy rotations visible or not.
Instead of calling mia (the nubs won't back up, they will die)... just port to the lane and turn the fight. The result is supports can afford more expensive items in lower MMR games. Take advantage of this and become more dangerous or more helpful earlier with a dagon, or a linkens sphere.
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I'll say now I did spam only a couple of heroes during the climb but Its no different to Blitz, Waga etc... minus the fact theyre actually good KEK.
In a little over two months my MMR has went from 3.2k-4.7k, I do plan go improve at other heroes again after 5K.
I present you:
http://tinyurl.com/poub7uf
http://puu.sh/hW9gX/6110ba500c.jpg
Its about attitude and finding something you're good at or just playing well on any hero I guess but we're not all Aui_2000.
Team has no wards and you're a carry? BUY YOUR OWN... no point waiting till you've died and typing "OMG SUPPORT NO BUY WARDS GG REPORT", then making threads about how Value is trying to stop you from climbing.