General Discussion

General DiscussionMMR is random!!! WTF

MMR is random!!! WTF in General Discussion
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    Well Mr/Mrs/Miss Awakened, I like your thinking... as I know there is some type of formula they use and it isn't "random". I've already stated that was a bad word choice... although it seemed random at the time... especially based off of my stats of win loss and previous game experience. Which again... brings me to the point of bringing awareness to this little flaw.

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      http://www.dotabuff.com/players/184492418

      This link is my friend who clearly has lower win rates than me... did much worse in his first 10 calibration games and ended up with about a 3800 MMR

      Again.. broken system

      1heroman

        If you ignore the other stuff [hero healing, tower healing, hero damage, tower damage and more!] then yes, you probably should get calibrated lower.

        "Yes many many factors! All which have will have next to nothing to do with your MMR once you get passed 10 games apparently."
        ^ ?!

        jo~

          why dont u understand that the winrate of your friend does not matter.
          and where does a 3k player get the audacity to provide his opinion on another player's performance lmfao

          1heroman

            "I didn't get the MMR I wanted and not earned... yep broken system"

            'Broken system'

            Yeah your friend has a low winrate, you get those people who abandon in first blood now and then but, if you look at his wins, he's mostly the person with the highest game impact.

            Z__

              It takes into acount every stat, as critalus said. The system miscalculates your hidden mmr on purpose at the early stages (first unranked games) in order to reduce your mmr's uncertainty. I'll explain it:

              Your account has a hidden mmr which is used in normal matchmaking and a visible mmr which is used on ranked matchmaking. A new account has, let's say, 0 hidden mmr because you're supposed to be new to the game. If you stomp your first 3-5 games you will get amazing stats (kda, hd, td, lh/dn, gpm, xpm, apm, etc) which the antismurf system will recognize. This will give you an over-inflated hidden mmr, let's say 5k -this explains why most smurfs end up in the very high skill bracket after a couple of matches and why most of them have a huge loss streak after this-. Why does the system do this? Because if you're not a 5k+ player, you will lose matches and drop until your hidden mmr is close to your "true" mmr. In short, the system is calibrating you since the start, that's why you have to play 100-150 matches before you can jump into ranked games.

              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/184540662/matches
              In pages 5 and 6 you lost most very high and high skill matches, your hidden mmr dropped until you were in the normal bracked and then you managed to do "fine", but you were already stucked at 2.5 - 3k.

              The system is almost perfect, it intentionally miscalculates and puts you in a very high skill bracket so you can drop to your real bracket. The only flaw that it has is that there's still people that can manage to cheat it and they get placed higher than they should, but they eventually drop (after ruining a couple of ranked matches, of course).

              Oh, and climbing in lower brackets is not hard at all. I got calibrated at 2.2k and now I'm sitting at 3.2k and still climbing. I could do it a lot faster if I wasn't a rager who gives up too easily.

              jo~

                if the system was almost perfect there wont be so many ppl gaming the system

                Поросёнок вышел!

                  So basically what Oleksandr pointed out is if you win a very high skill game or two at the start and then do less than 50% after that... winning about 3 - 4 games in the calibration portion... deserves better than what I did?

                  In other words... just do good on your first few games and then ride the high? lol

                  yes my friend enjoys to pick carries and LOVES to fountain farm... So I guess fountain farming is the key as well. Fuck finishing the game and moving on. Get those fountain farm kills for 5 minutes hahahaha. Great calibrating system.

                  LunchyyyyyYYYyyyyYyyyYyyy...

                    Well shit dickhead go and make your own fucking system.

                    Поросёнок вышел!

                      I cant.. dont know how :( perhaps bringing awareness of some flaws will help the Valve corporation adjust it accordingly :) thanks for your suggestion though :)

                      Awakened

                        @Oleksandr: can't agree more with your statements. However I don't think the system deliberately miscalculates your hidden mmr. Not that the system wants to underestimates/overestimates you, just that there are a lot of factors that affect your games (like your mood, teammates blame and so on).

                        Oh Shit Waddup

                          Are you only mad because your friends are higher rated than you and pay you out even though you think you're better?

                          Hint: You're not.

                          I have an idea for you. Instead of raging on a forum about the broken system and why arent you 5k, maybe read a fucking guide and try to learn stuff instead of asking for it on a platter. i know tonnes of people who think theyre better than they are but in reality theyre not, and the only people who get better are the ones who try to actually get better, seek help and shit, which is hard to do when you always think youre better or its always your teams fault.

                          I dislike solo queing ranked because as soon as you make a mistake/ fuck up something which looks easy but you get outplayed everyone on the fucking team is like omg this cunt.

                          IF youre unhappy with your rating, make a smurf, use the abuse, and see if you actually get a better rating and can maintain it and then come and cry/cheer about how you are/arent 5k and its all the systems fault

                          1heroman

                            Thick skull is too hardened by stupidity which cannot be penetrated.

                            WENGKS

                              Its not broken, Is that a smurf? If yes. Then you climbed your way down unconsciously while your friend consistently maintained his rating in High & VH

                              Look at your first games, You went 7 losings streak the second you entered the VH bracket. Your only 2 VH is both lose games.
                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/184540662/matches?page=6

                              9 win/ 11 lose = You went down to normal bracket
                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/184540662/matches?page=5
                              The Second you went Normal bracket, that's the time you have been consistent in your Winratio. Its not their fault
                              You were once VH but can't be consistent in that bracket.

                              Nubtrain

                                "So basically what Oleksandr pointed out is if you win a very high skill game or two at the start and then do less than 50% after that... winning about 3 - 4 games in the calibration portion... deserves better than what I did?

                                In other words... just do good on your first few games and then ride the high? lol

                                yes my friend enjoys to pick carries and LOVES to fountain farm... So I guess fountain farming is the key as well. Fuck finishing the game and moving on. Get those fountain farm kills for 5 minutes hahahaha. Great calibrating system."

                                What's so hard to understand about the system? If you think you do not belong in this MMR then play more. If you're that much better then you should be able to breeze through your mmr bracket, stop worrying about your initial mmr, it's meaningless especially when you have so few games. @Oleksandr already pointed out that your MMR will adjust as you play more and your initial rating aren't as accurate as someone who has had 1000 normal games with more stats to be used to place the player.

                                If your friend got 3.8k and you really believe he's worse than you, then he'll eventually lose that MMR as he plays more since he can't possibly play against players in that mmr skill-wise. You cannot complain with only about 110 games, if you play more and your mmr consistently rises then great you're actually better then where the system placed you. So even if you played 1000 games later on in your dota lifespan and you're still below 3.5k mmr then you belong there. You bring points that happen "once in a blue moon" that affect stats but none of that matters in long term when there are more games of varying skills are to be played to accurately place you in a bracket you belong, statistically.

                                It's the quality of the matches over a period of time before you hit your calibration matches that will determine your INITIAL mmr #. Someone could be placed at 3k and quickly jump to 4k+ easily due to sheer skill difference if they actually do not belong in that skill group. So if you got good stats, high win-rate and placed in a really high mmr, that doesn't matter if you're unable to stay in that mmr bracket after another 100+ of ranked games... sheesh.

                                PROTECTHIMFROMWHATHEWANTS

                                  55% unranked + fail KDA's ( low hero dmg ) = 3k mmr

                                  > Well Played!
                                  > Well Played!
                                  > Well Played!

                                  karen's ♥

                                    I GOT 500 KDA 9999 XPM GPM WHY AM I NOT 10K MMR????

                                    ps games were against bots

                                    If your argument is "cuz its a bot game", what if i played against new players who cant even win against the easiest bots? 10k mmr for me?

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                                    Karma

                                      Please

                                      I had like 70% win rate on my main acc, playing mostly role 4 and 5.

                                      I got calibrated at 3800.

                                      Fucking shitty system that focuses on retarded things.

                                      Zenoth

                                        sure show us that account

                                        by the way its fucking easy to have 90% and calibrate at 3k or something

                                        Steror

                                          It's mostly based on your hero damage that's why you see a lot of TBD zeus account raisers. Hero damage is a pretty accurate way to decide your impact in-game in most cases.

                                          PROTECTHIMFROMWHATHEWANTS

                                            @Karma

                                            u cant even pass Mediocre winrate at >20 games with smurf...
                                            show us ur main acc
                                            3800 too much for u.. guess u droped 3k and started smurf right?
                                            PLEASE Son

                                            wasted penguinz

                                              its just a placement if ur better u rise anyway
                                              my placement was 4,1 now im 4,5 just play

                                              Metallicize

                                                lol dude, your kda with es is low, i really think a good es should have around 4 kda.
                                                and i don't mean 300 kills 0 deaths and 0 assists, i mean 3k 4d 13a. you dont have to be megaskilled to land assists and boost your kda....
                                                dude as i see you and your friend are around 2k mmr and made new accounts to play with dendi and xbox, cuz you think you obviosly deserve 6k mmr and volvo fucked you up by giving you retards who can't win even if you carry the fuck out of them.
                                                mmr shows approximate skill and if you were a 4k player your ranked games at 3k would be at least 70-80% won, even if you play crystal maiden. and btw having 10 ranked games and showing off your cool 70% ranked winrate is not cool :)
                                                dude i can't stress this enough, mmr is not broken, gaben didn't curse you, volvo does not have a conspiracy against you.
                                                can't you just play and stop raging and calling valve retards with random system, just get good already, its not that hard.....

                                                4Skin

                                                  How the hell can you be surprised over calibrating at 3k mmr? You don't have a single game played in vhs bracket and your average kda in normal bracket is 2.6, and you're still playing most of your games in that bracket. If you want to reach a cartain mmr, then play like you deserve it and quit bitching on forums about sucking at this game.

                                                  Caesar

                                                    win rate has nothing to do with calibrating.
                                                    i had 75% win on my main, won 4/10 at calibrating and got 2,6k
                                                    http://www.dotabuff.com/players/180977385

                                                    PyroManyak

                                                      LOL! broken system my ass. I calibrated my ranked games when i got 800 games i got 3.8k or something coz mostly i played support heroes in pubs. But now you know what my mmr is? its 5k. if you can't get out of that mmr means you belong there, system isn't perfect but it works fine with me.

                                                      Vertoxity

                                                        When I made this ACC, he was at very high skill games. People that I've matched against was over 4k in mmr.

                                                        When I started ranked, first 2 games was at 4.1 - 4-2 mmr, I saw it because I added them to check out their mmr.

                                                        When I finished calibration games, I managed to get this acc only to 3625... With awful 38% winrate!

                                                        I lost 8 out of 10 in caliration matches, btw.

                                                        Vertoxity

                                                          So it's not mmr. It's you. That's the point.

                                                          Only 680 gpm, only 24 kills, low kda, plays only ES and so on.

                                                          frostychee

                                                            Normal Skill

                                                            I'm 14k mmr let me mid

                                                              WINRATE HAVE NO RELATION WITH YOUR SKILL FUCKTARD!

                                                              LOOK THIS ACCOUNT 40% WINRATE AND I HAVE THE SAME MMR

                                                              I HAVE 44% NOW, BUT I BEGAN WITH LIKE 40%

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                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                ^

                                                                Nice manners.

                                                                #12

                                                                  55% win rate over 100ish games is only 10 more wins then losses or +250mmr, I think you can get 2500MMR by saying you are an experienced DOTA player and going 50/50 before calibrating. What are you upset about the system recognized that you were a bit better then 2750 and gave you a slightly higher rating.

                                                                  I'm 14k mmr let me mid

                                                                    ^
                                                                    The smurf mmr is prety accurate.

                                                                    If i play stacked with 2k ppl i could get a 70% winrate, and... im not 6k cuz i won some shit games over the 50%.

                                                                    OH NOW YOU HAVE 55% WINRATE, IT IS LIKE 9 WINS MORE, OH SUCH A GREAT PLAYER BUY A 4K ACCOUNT AND GET REKT FUCKEEN NAB

                                                                    I'm 14k mmr let me mid

                                                                      And you are saying in your games you are 4.5k sooooo S A D

                                                                      KsoChZ

                                                                        MMR system is not broken. It's based on everything that happened in the game for you. Kill participation, Kills, Deaths, Assists, GPM, XPM, APM, Denies, tower damage, hero damage, courier purchase, wards bought and placed, sentries used. EVERYTHING counts your mmr. This determines your calibration mmr based on these stats in unranked for you.

                                                                        This is how supports can be calibrated at high mmr's. How much of an impact you had on the game. Supports can have a very large impact in games even if they don't have a high KDA. It counts a lot more than what you think.

                                                                        Seoulmate

                                                                          50% winrate at 9k mmr
                                                                          90% winrate at 1k mmr

                                                                          If you're winning 90% of your games that's great. But you should be winning 100% of them

                                                                          50% winrate is ok. But that's great at 9k mmr

                                                                          kakakotkoa

                                                                            3k mmr true hell bro

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                                                                            MLG Quickscoper 420 Kushlord

                                                                              Seems like the forums are more flooded than ever with noobs/trolls who like to post crap like this thread.

                                                                              Here are some of the latest smurfs stuck in 3k, who rage here in order to rise to their true mmr out of elo hell once and for all:

                                                                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/184540662
                                                                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/172189729
                                                                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/192303787
                                                                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/193083814
                                                                              http://www.dotabuff.com/players/189169365

                                                                              They are real gems of the dota community, diamonds in the rough if you will. If only the idiots on the forum could see their wisdom: MMR is broken; they are the ones who belong in the pro scene and the leaderboards. In fact, since I got a bunch of kills one game, I belong at 6.5k at least. Its just gaben keeping me down.

                                                                              (I hope you all realize this is sarcasm)

                                                                              Ples Mercy

                                                                                I've seen people with 30% winrate and 5k rating.

                                                                                Also, seeing that you are 2k trash i can't see any problems here at all. The system did not place u into 5k or something and is rather close to ur real rating.

                                                                                The only thing u have proven is, that the system is rather accurate.

                                                                                ooooooooooo
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                                                                                  ....

                                                                                    HAHAHAHAH

                                                                                    Поросёнок вышел!

                                                                                      Calibration is still not great in my mind :) no one has really been able to answer what I was hoping for. Thanks for all the comments though. Appreciate any of the feed back, rude or not. Those that put in extra effort to actually logically answer, you rock :)

                                                                                      Will be hopefully bringing up my un-answered questions on the DOTA 2 forums. Perhaps that will help bring more awareness to the issue.

                                                                                      jo~

                                                                                        what questions lol. all there is in this thread (or at least in the OP) is whine

                                                                                        PyroManyak

                                                                                          "apparently 55% win rate prior to LVL 13... playing with other people who have similar win rates in normal AP... However!!!! Once I get into ranked... OH BOY! get matched with people who have 49%... I win 70% in ranked but that gets me a starting MMR of 3150??? Such a useless system"

                                                                                          Sorry? Is this your question you are asking?

                                                                                          hernan

                                                                                            Smurf => Noob
                                                                                            Noob => Low MMR

                                                                                            Regards, hernan.

                                                                                            ("MMR is Random" hahaha, you're so funny.)

                                                                                            ooooooooooo
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                                                                                              PROTECTHIMFROMWHATHEWANTS

                                                                                                well i will start calibrating soon
                                                                                                wish me luck pls.. Lord GabeN Play my calibrating games pls

                                                                                                Welt aus Eis

                                                                                                  You are terrible, accept it and then you'll have room for improvement

                                                                                                  Toyota Corolla

                                                                                                    It's not broken, your starting mmr was extremely low look at your first page. 6 wins 11 losses. Happened to me as well which contributes to my win rate. I finished calibrating at 3.3k