When Cookie doing analysis, he makes something like "mental notes" on where to stand, how to move or what to check to avoid shit that happened. Other people do simply accept that they fucked-up, which is big deal already in itself, but they learn nothing.
I've said this before and I'll say it again- it is very diffcult to self-analyze in my opinion. Either your mistakes are blindingly obvious (AKA I should click my bkb before I go in, or I shouldn't farm over the river when everyone is missing) and replay analysis is a waste of time because you probably knew this when it happened in game. Or your mistakes are subtle (you should have gone x item over y item, or you should have farmed more instead of fighting, or you should have done one farming pattern over another) and if you are able to notice them from your own replay you probably wouldn't have done them in the first place.
That is why I recommend replay analysis be of other players who are better than you, because you know when they make a decision it is closer to being the 'optimal' play than whatever you did. If you really want to analyze your own play get a high mmr friend or a coach to do it, still I think if you are sub 4k better to work on your mechanical skill rather than decision-making and the best way to do that is just to grind solo ranked games playing only a few heroes.
when i try something that resembles analyzing i fast forward to where i knew my team and i fucked up, spot mistakes i made, evaluate what i couldve done better, and move on
this is the best part of spamming a small pool of heroes, i can actually remember the little tidbits of info that i get from watching my games
the problem is i cant spot ALL the mistakes since i dont even notice that they mistakes in a certain way. maybe "mistake" is not the word but "sub standard". like that move wasnt bad in itself but there were moves that were more efficient in carrying out the task
this is where the higher mmr players that are kind enough to do the analyze for me so that absolutely every little shitty thing can be identified, evaluated, and solved (thx zer0)
anyways regarding the perspective other player's perspective dont really matter as cookie said. since the only constant in the game is you, you should focus on your own games and how you can be better without relying too much on other people
I remember when I let cookie analyzed my am game, after he watched my dogshit am, he wrote some stuff down on what I lacked which were:
-farming patterns, pushing, lineup strength/ when to fight or not fight, split push, lane control
Essentially you have to look at Everything you were doing,(not just your deaths and lasthits) and critically think of what you could have done better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_MNUzUShMk link to cookie analyzing my am game and other peoples game
^ i thought so too
that's why i refrain from doing self-analysis because most of the time i wouldn't know what i did wrong in a game anyway
tbh i'd rather watch coaching youtube channels than my own games since i'd learn more from higher mmr players' insights than me trying to understand what went wrong in a game
@Tasaina☭ when i analyize for lower players: i do the explanation and then give them notes so that they remember what to work on, so that they don't forget what i thought them.
pretty much what exactly @CTRL+V&CTRL+V said.
you can't notice your mistakes, it's almost impossible because you don't know what a mistake is. at best you can optimise the stuff you already do, or smal subtle changes.
but i'll give you the textbook example of what people fail at analyising: http://betterdota.com/
what he would do is he'd reflect on his mistakes, the small mistakes that you can obviously see: http://betterdota.com/mmr/
as you can see(if you scroll down in the raw data) he makes those notes, same notes i give when i analyze other people
as you can see, it's not analysis, it's literally just reflecting on mistakes.
but in reality, i almost never analyze my own games, simple reason like cutnpaste said: it's very difficult to find your mistakes
because you're looking at the game trough your own eyes, all that will happen is that you'll re-live it. sure you can come up with ways to optimise it, and fix small mistakes. but massive mistakes you can't find them, because you don't know them:
take an example any lane, you'd do some analysis where you would find any mistake you made and you could possibly correct those small mistakes.
but here's a giant mistake that you don't know about: not pulling the side camp
sure you just did a 1 hour analysis on your own game to figure out how to solo win as slark vs a strong dual lane, but something giant that would've actually won you that lane is pulling the side camp
and you can't notice that, it's almost impossible. BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT
you'll fix your small mistakes as ''i shouldn't have stood there'' "if i prepared this creep i could've last hit it" etc.
another example: back when i was learning arc warden, i would lose literally every game:
and i did my best to do anything possible, but i'd lose every game.
and i finally got a higher mmr player to tell me why, he watched 10 min and he gave me 1 easy fix that made me a super god arc:
"kick your support out of lane"
literally, it was all that,
i did like 5 days of non stop arc training to fix lasthitting, positioning etc.
and none of that was needed, because all i needed is a solo lane...
and i would never have figured it out myself, because simply i didn't know WHAT THE MISTAKE IS.
conclusion: if you want to properly improve, analyze higher mmr players or try to analyize your game by looking at other things you could do(non stop idea generation)
if anyone's interested, i'll do a stream tonight, i'll show the ACTUAL WAY i analyze games.
i've never did real analysis on stream, so it should be fun
Of course other players will find a lot of "mistakes" in your plays. Because what they think is a mistake, may be just a different playstyle. DOTA 2 is very complex game, remember? Everybody finds his own way to play this complex game.
No, knowing what a mistake is is objective to how it affects your chance to win a game
Example:
two 3k players might have different methods to win a 3k game
But both methods are a flawed version(or a portion) of a 6k's method
I get what you are saying cookie but 2k, 3k, maybe even 4k players are so bad at the basics that should be their focus imo. Perfecting cs in lane, figuring out farm rotations, figuring out when ganks are coming and to back and use map awareness, figuring out when to rotate, what fights to take, when to push vs farm, hell just figuring out what heroes to pick makes a huge difference. Those things you can see from watching your replays.
For example you'll get ganked in your lane and blame the mid for not calling missing but then on the replay you can clearly see the enemy dot move past a ward, you just weren't watching. Or you'll notice damn he's been gone from lane like 30 seconds, obvious gank. And no, that isn't realizable post game without watching replay cus maybe he tp'd to the tier1 and cut around some trees so you couldn't see it coming. There's a big difference to falling for a very well setup gank vs dying to the most obvious mid walks right under ward gank, but if you don't notice it at the time you need to watch replay to be sure.
Or a lot of times you'll lose a team fight and not really know why. Then on replay you'll see shit, we disabled x and y heroes but really it was z hero counter initiating everything. Or man I really got kited trying to kill x hero, I should've just sat on y hero.
I had a game on wk where I blinked and stunned a slark and no one on my team followed up, he ulted away, and ended up with our entire team wiped. I had to watch replay to see what my teammates did and where they failed to follow up to realize they were scared of another hero so were hanging back and didn't use their spells effectively.
Direwolf
1. Blaming anyone but yourself is a thing of incompetence, watching a replay wont fix someone's attiude. Like i said, he'll just see it again from his own perspective and find a new way to blame that teammate
2. map awareness is not posible to be learned in a replay due to it being simply mechanical(checking map every couple of seconds). Because while watching a replay you get to forget about the time and think as much as you want(you can reverse, speed up and speed down time) while in a real game you do t get to control time
You can use analysis to practice advanced map awareness in a replay (predicting people's locations in fog)
But you should never base that on your own games as the decisionmaking/gameplay of your enemies is heavily flawed.
Best is to do it b watching high mmr replays
I don't know if that was directed at me but I wasn't blaming my teammates, I was initiating when they weren't prepared to follow up and didn't get that.
"But you should never base that on your own games as the decisionmaking/gameplay of your enemies is heavily flawed."
I actually disagree here. If you try to play like a pro but lack the skill to literally solo 1v5 and your team cannot keep up with your pro strats it's best to ditch them for simpler stuff. There are tons of examples of this like when to rosh. Pro team will know when they can squeeze in a rosh and have vision, noob team won't and will get team wiped. Or when defending a t1, pro team will tp in in sync with each other and defend, noob team will let one guy tp in, rest will bail or be late and he will die. Or you spot a perfect initation on an enemy hero but need immediate follow up to kill him. You cannot expect your noob team to react that fast, better to just layoff sometimes.
It's same with enemies. You need to know what the 3ks are thinking and will try within their flawed thinking. For example diving someone mid, pro will absolutely kite you, get teammates to back him up and you will die. 3ks might not and diving may be the right call.
Or like diving a rax, finishing it but getting wiped. In a pro match that could mean you have to bb en masse or lose a rax. 3ks generally won't take advantage of that.
So ok someone higher than you looks at replay and says hey at 10 mins that was an indicating of a gank... but gank never comes. You know why? cus the 3k player can't or doesn't think to pull it off. In the meantime you sat under tower for 30 seconds and missed a whole wave of cs.
arc without a support in the safelane is as abd as arc mid which is quite terrible.
I agree with dire wolf. U have to adapt depending on what players in your own bracket are likely to do. Behaving like they would make a 6k rotation would be detrimental to your own plays. Save those for when u r actually 6k. Getting mmr is a process of learning why every piece of shit decision is shit. U learn why 3ks are shit from playing in 3k. And u learn how to exploit it then move on to 4k. That's the only way a higher level players always knows how to exploit mistakes of lower skilled players.
U can't just shadow 7ks in their 7k game and learn how to win in 3k.
Here KR provides the best example of the fact that what works in lower skilled games doesn't work in higher skilled games. He says solo arc is bad. Might be true in his games, but in cookies games it works. That's all that matters. U learn why it works in 5k, u learn what kind of mistakes happen in 5k, u develop strats to win in 5k, u goto 6-7k and u find out why it actually doesn't work. That's how u learn.
U r stupid :p
as if u woke up one day while u were 5k and suddenly started playing and thinking like a 7k. Tell me how many thousands of games u played in between. Dunning Kruger works both ways. Ppl who are competent underestimate their competence and start thinking that things which are so obvious and easy in dota are obvious and easy for others. U forgot how long it took to get t where u are, and u forgot the process it took to learn and get to where u are. U sir have dunning Kruger syndrome
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WARNING!!! DUMB QUESTIONS INCOMING!!! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
so if i'm going to do an analysis on a game, how should i approach it? what should i typically look for, and what part do i really "analyze"? is watching my perspective alone enough? or should i also include the perspective of other players?
i actually have never tried analyzing my own games because i don't think i'm smart enough to do it, plus absolute zero analyzes some of games from time to time (thx m8). but since i won't have time to play lots of dota, i would like to do some self-analysis on my games too