i am not a good tinker but i watched ton of 6-7.5k games via client every day and here is my humble understanding.
shivas is super good versus illusion heroes (ck especially) and vs some heavy right clicker that will most likely go diffusal to dispel you ghost scepter (Juggernaut) so you will need some armor to actually survive few more seconds.
linken's is obvious choice vs doom,am,lc,beast master,necro and the likes of them.
i don't see pro players build manta tbh and i guess that euls is better stats and cheaper price for int heroes.
also you may need to consider bkb if they have very heavy disables and silences like you can do nothing and focused down without it. (ex. silencer+voker that usually focus you).
the most effective/common build for tinker atm is teamfighter BoT->blink->aether lens->bloodstone->agha->sheep stick-> whatever you need , dagon is not bad by any mean if you can and plan to snowball on their supports but it is not that successful in most vhs matches.
defensie tinker is more like ,,team fight help tinker,, whic includes shiva (reduce ms and atack speed ) hex (help i fights ) ethetral ( your ally if they have alot phyasical dps)
manta is shit why wouls u go manta u use manta in one lane then go other lane use manta and ilus disapear
bkb is ok but if you rly need it
manta for the dispel my friend
idk if linkens spell block gets rearmed as well bcs that seems like a better alternative as a defensive item
man 'i have 450 tinkers manta is fucking shit better get cyclon then
linken is ok then but 5 th 6 th item
euls generally not preferred as efficiency is the name of the game for a tink player. youd waste 2.5s just being useless rather than going 1 round of march-ethereal-dagon-missile-laser-rearm
manta needs 0.01 seconds or so + it might be confusing for the enemies in the chaos of a teamfight
tink might not utilize manta's other benefits well but the instant dispel + disjoint is valuable on such a high priority target
Manta for dispel is so inefficient lmao maybe buy diffusal blade (no mana cost is okay) or eul
It might save your life, but its gamelosing too as it costs almost like Sheepstick
im 450 tinker games and i play tinker only dagon bloodstone eth hex i dont even go shiva aether agh cause i dont need and i can win game wihout those items cause im pro tinker ur fucking 2k shit cocksycker and dont know shit
@Peeping Tom well that escalated quickly. its true i have close to no experience with tink and yes i am 2k, but none of your arguments disprove mine, so i dont really see the point of your answer. my observations are purely theoretical and im sorry if i hurt your massive epenis, it wasnt my place oh strong and great 4k smurf overlord
@薄氷 does diffusal get rearmed? i mean are the charges unlimited or something? havent played that much tink yet so idk. 6 charges might seem enough to do the job but with my experience as a juggernaut it barely is, perhaps more so on a tinker who might be aimed at
shivas is OK but its not defensive, linkens and bkb are super situational, manta makes no sense.
tinker doesnt need "defensive" items, u adjust ur playstyle and not ur itembuild (im assuming u giot aether and aghs).
1:Shivas
thats for getting flying vision and splitpushing, not defensive
2:BKB
never
3.Linken's
i dunno sometimes there are heroes where a single target spell ruins my day so i get it like 7th slot maybe where i cast it on myself in fountain and then swap items
4:Manta Style
not defensive either, that's for slow splitpushing lanes. i haven't seen anyone buying this item for 3 years though
u cant talk with 2k retard who dont listen and says manta is good for tinker and goes for bkb sphere, even tho bkb sphere is a must in that game beter go for bloodstone to revive much faster ( unless ur trash and get 0 charges in 5 mins of game )
and yes there is no defensive tinker there is less agrressive kill steal tinker and more team oriented |
im not saying manta is a great item on tink, just saying why it could theoretically be good
When I analyzed my games, I would have for example have 33 kills, but I would have about 16 deaths.
Which is why I was asking on how to go defensive. My Bloodstone usually cannot exceed 20+ charges because of this.
I usually go for a BKB and it actually allows me to go apeshit on all my enemies. (Ethereal + Dagon) after about 3-4 kills I would die and lose more Bloodstone charges than gained. Question: With my current situation explained above, can Bloodstone be replaced by Linken's?
Also Force Staff on Tinker actually won me some games and I'm just here to ask if it can replace Dagger? I usually buy Force Staff along with Dagger but never tried just a Force Staff alone.
Basically, Soul Ring + Guardian Greaves nullify manacost of Rearm (150+160 vs 300). So it will keep you longer in fight before you have to return to base.
shivas is super good versus illusion heroes
Aghs is 10x better, and you don't have to dive deep into enemy lines just to clear any illu army.
IMHO you just need to play positioning to your advantage. Let your team do the damage soaking, avoid getting focused by staying at edges of fights picking off targets this way. aether lens, blink dagger and your queue button does wonders to this effect.
^
definitely agha is better dude no doubt but he asked about few items and i just mentioned them
idk but i think it is kinda of ok to go aether agha shiva then bloodstone vs illusion heroes
i won a 99999 minute game vs megas because of manta + shivas
however i am literally the worst tinker in the world
^i was looking for that manta tinker game and then I found this
You could rearm GG boots but do heals stack? Isnt there like a buffer window where you cant get healed again at that time?
^There is cooldown on heal, but not on mana restoration and debuffs removal.
That actually works? Gonna try that out I think it could be better than my casual BKB.
It's actually a good defensive option if you could simply dispel debuffs on your team every casual rearm in fights.
u died 16 times not cause u have not t defensive items but because ur diving too muc thats why aether lens exist hex is 1k range laser is 1k too they cant fuck touch u with aether but seems u dive alot thats why u dive ...u need to work on your position as tinker
^^dog you won't find manta + shivas in my items because when we wiped their team the first time I swapped them out in fountain for offensive items to win the GG fight near their base
guardian greaves tinker sounds super legit, however i really am a garbage tinker so don't take my building it to mean anything
is that good thing to rush scythe on tinker. skip bloodstone and aether... what you guys thought about this match?
www.dotabuff.com/matches/2669985623
I forgot to add that cape and forcestaff is good too for a utility tinker and has a good defensive side to it even for teammates that overextend.
euls generally not preferred as efficiency is the name of the game for a tink player. youd waste 2.5s just being useless rather than going 1 round of march-ethereal-dagon-missile-laser-rearm
Manta < euls. illus wont save you if opponents have aoe, especially that you get a lot of invokers, storms and aghs miranas in game.
Also, it's a good cheap scythe alternative. You could set up combos with team with it. You can disrupt channelled spells. Did I mention you could blink off of it? You'd rather get focused in fight and be useless during the rest of it than be safe for 2.5 seconds and reset whenever? Also, if you havent noticed, manta costs 5k while euls is 2.7k. What dagon-eblade combo are you talking about when you invested so much gold on a gimmicky dodge toy?
euls manta r ur defensive items i believe hex is always good in general bkb is a sometiems think its not terrible especially since u can slot it in/out shivas isnt a defensive item its a lan epushing item
@Peeping Tom Thanks for the tip, I'll implement this to my gameplay.
@DAMN SON !!! Gives you the ability to permanently use Doom on a hero if you do rush this. However, you will need to rely on your team.
Please sign in to post comments.
When do you get:
1:Shivas
2:BKB
3.Linken's
4:Manta Style
Kindly explain which is better in most scenarios, assuming you have Shivas/Shivas is not an option and you need either No. 2, 3 or 4.
And also after Ethereal and Dagon is Manta Style good? (As an offensive and pushing item)