General DiscussionJungle LC

jungle lc is not shit at all, particularly for high rating solo mm

KohDaddy, if you weren't shit you wouldn't have subhuman <50% winrate. There are shit players playing mid DP, shit players playing offlane abaddon, shit players playing safelane juggernaut, it doesn't mean that's bad. In your bracket everyone's shit anyway, and I should know that.

When you get rekt/carried by a 7min blink jungle LC, you'll know.

"The jungle legion is shit" thing is such a fucking circlejerk, go on reddit and you'll see anyone that says "well actually it's quite good if you play it properly" gets downvoted to shit. Literally this shit has become a fucking meme just stop

If you are not brain damaged, this is how LC jungle works:
1) Get your 7 minute blink, have a support ward up to make sure your jungle isn't fucked
2) Gank
3) Smoke with a bursty support and gank some more
4) Infiltrate and ward enemy jungle
5) Farm it, because you have huge balls
6) Farm heroes for duels
7) Split push
8) Get tons of damage, get rosh
9) Push with your team

If all you're doing is taking space from others to farm and not duelling the right people or not having the map awareness to know when there are more people, or blink into fog in high hopes, well, guess what, that's LC badly played jungle or no jungle. You need a bit of cooperation with your team at the start of the game to get your duels rolling, you're free to do anything in the midgame (but are mostly supposed to shutdown enemy farmers, like battlefury AMs for example, make sure battlefury is the last thing they get), in the lategame you either coordinate pushes with your team or you yolo solopush while your brain damaged team is taking a fight they could not possibly win with or without you, and hope you will get rax after rax and not die.

The whole idea of a jungle LC pick is to infiltrate the enemy jungle and deny farm to the other team, meanwhile being a target for coordinated ganks yourself, which creates a ton of space for your actual carries to farm up. If they have to dedicate time and heroes and smokes just to deal with you while your spectre freefarms, well, guess what, you just wont the fucking game even if you die in the enemy jungle. If your carry is brain damaged PL who rushes BoTs and Radiance, then you go hard carry build and try to play as safe as possible.

^is this completely irrelevant or just some joke I don't get

Yeah, OP might have just realized that people who buy wards actually exist. Also, you had no initiation on your team, as long as omni puts down a ward, you can shadowblade into the enemy team and what then? Die. When the enemy team has sick initiation and tons of shit they can get off durng a fight, and you have no way to stop them, well, guess what, you lose the fucking game.

OP's last game was shadowblade on both tiny and lc.

funny jungle lc gave me heaps of mmr

Im sure that LC jungle can be good in some games, but reality is this: most jungle LCs are shitstains who want to play carry and last pick LC ruining the draft, they rush blink with no boots and fail. When i see a jungle LC in the other team i think the game is already won cause most of them play HC style and lategame they duel your support CM for +18 dmg only, they kill the CM and they die cause cm wasnt alone being the most farmed hero, then they lose the fucking game in a single push.
Same shit happens with most jungle NPs
@road to oblivion im sure you know how to play the hero cause i saw your profile and you spam the shit out of LC :P, but im talking about the average puber who picks jungle lc or jungle naix to "carry"

The cost of jungle LC is giving total freefarm to the enemy safelane which if they're competent and picked a good hero they'll use to completely steamroll the entire game. Case in point my last game (i mean it's a pretty bad example because we had a jungler too but you get the idea), where a jungle LC on the other team gets 7 min blink or whatever, ganks our mid a few times, and then proceeds to lose.

If instead you just send LC off, you have another support that can roam, getting kills before 7 minutes, or dual lane the LC so that the enemy safelane doesn't get complete and utter freefarm.

If you look at actual hero winrates in jungle vs other lanes, the general trend is that stuff other than chen/enigma/lycan has no business jungling outside of very specific situations.

You need a strong lineup to have anyone jungle. Most likely u are losing cause ur other lanes are too weak

You think LC jungle is shit? Look at my LC and URSA winrate 90% on LC and 100% on URSA just all jungle bro. It still depends on how you play the game

I don't think it's bad, but from the few LC games i've played, i've had more luck in lane because her base damage is so high, it's pretty ez to outlast hit other 2k retards, solo laners or weak lanes.
Examples:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2121861890
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2111395617

the biggest problems that makes lc shit hero
1.if someone come to your jungle and try to fuck with u your fucked -------------- a bounty hunter can come to your jungle and fuck your farm or at least get some free xp a bh can easily delay your blink dagger 6 minute
2.if u have a carry at safe lane like spec and invoker mid lone druid top then why would you need a lc ???? you can get a roam tusk bh riki or even pudge
3. even if u get blink in 7 minute u only can get kills and duel damage if enemy team doesn't have a warded map for example you go mid and jump on invoker and duel then sf in your mid lane will kill invoker with 2 raze ez duel but that never gonna happen if map is warded
4.against a tanky line up you never get solo kills
now lets see what actually happen when u pick lc jungle
1. enemy safe lane is 100% free farm and most of times your offlaner dies many time because they can 3 lane or something
2.they can easily gank your mid because they have a roamer
3.enemy team can have free farm carry at safe lane and offlane + they will win mid because they gank mid
4.they get 2 support that mean more wards

now tell me how u wanna win the game when u lost all 3 lanes
basically winning as lc jungle 100% depends on enemy team brain if they are dead brains you win if not u lose
legion commander has a winrate close to storm spirit witch is out of meta in +5k bracket

if u ask me she is the shittiest hero of doto

in 2k 3k bracket legion commander has lower winrate than enigmaaaaaaaaa holyyyyyyyyyy fuck how this is possible in 2k 3k bracket enigma picker never get meca or pipe on they get blink before boots then aghanim they never cast a normal blackhole so how the fuck enigma still has a higher winrate than lc
answer is simple lc is deepshit always get pick by deepshits

@road to oblivion
for god sake dont reply me and tell me u can win as lc and only brain dead people lose as lc jungle because if u can win as lc in 2k bracket that doesn't mean lc is decent pick i can pick storm spirit in 2k bracket and get same win rate as your lc just to prove that u are wrong if u got high winrate as lc in 2k bracket i bet u can have a higher winrate as any other hero because the reason you have 61% winrate as lc is not that lc is so good its because you are so good (in your bracket)

The main idea is, that you have to build blink dagger always!!!(only in some cases sb when you fight against pa, bristle etc.)
And gang, gang,gang
The power of legion in duels, not in farm, you have to ult by cd every minute. If you wont do that, you will be useless for your team

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2117076621
you dont need 7 minute blink to win. I finish treads then have my safelane bait once i get level 6. Go with teammates and duel every chance you get as long as you know you wont lose. This particular game i had 296 duel damage at the end and was untouchable. Shes my top played with about 58% winrate. As long as i have a halfway decent team she can become unstoppable. Also blademail is not a requirement.

^the command is just IMG, not IMAGE

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2122015255

I fp Spectre, Invoker picks 2nd, Techies random 3rd. Two idiots decide to play LC woods and LD off

I'm left soloing versus SK and Abba, I die twice, solo kill Abba once

Lose tier 2 in 10 mins.

Jungle gets invaded + they have BH

LC goes on a feeding mission

We win the game somehow

LC is 5200 MMR

Action was taken against him

Last report well used

While I'm bitching, game before that I also play Spec. I have a jungling Doom rushing Radiance and Phoneix making 2nd Urn and Doom making 2nd Drums. Zeus has 0-10 before he "secures" 4 kills with ulty. Phoneix gets 20 min Midas after the Urn. Never carried more peasants than in those two games. Although in LC game Voker provided help but he was inbreed tardius anyway.

I always thought of lc as a ganker. I usually go offlane and max 1st skill first. It worked out well for me so far. Sorry im just new and its a newbie's opinion.

i found it really shit but i had one guy who knew what he was doing and now im convinced its viable. just too many retards playing jungle lc wrong
also u cant firstpick it or roamers will fuck your ass

link please?
anw ppd just released his jungle lc video haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAvgGQja1M

@invoker picker = dog:

I've had many comments on how effective my jungling LC is - people are usually surprised I am actually useful in the early game, because before the major map change @ radiant side I'd keep my safelane from feeding, otherwise it's my mid (dire or radiant). I also keep an early TP scroll and 185 mana at all times to make sure I can TP support dives and heal people if necessary. I also try not to take space from my team to farm, but rather farm in the enemy jungle/pushed out lanes if I see people on the map, I also buy wards that I place in the enemy jungle while smoked, if I can get the timings right, I will also make sure to stack one camp for my mid @ dire.

Now, I think what you need to realize as a jungler is that you need to positively impact the game at most times, so it's not really about jungling, it's about player mentality, and it's just way more apparent when somebody is effectively not contributing to the game than when he's doing so, but badly.

As with doing anything badly, just don't. If you're going to completely afk jungle legion, don't, unless your lanes are already won. If you're a support don't fucking single pull. If you're a support don't die to deward. Even good ideas and good intentions can be done poorly, and influence the game in the other team's favor, but jungling LC (or any other non natural jungler hero) badly is going to be very detrimental.

im sory but im new to dota2 after long retired from dota1..i have 1 question. tbh..i have no idea why jungling LC is hate by pubs and some players would report jungle LC? why? is jungle LC is cancerous and 100% factor to lose game or throw? i play alot of jungle LC and i always enjoy game playing jungle LC (yeah its true some games i feed alot).

pls clarify me..why jungle LC is said to be misplayed? as a pub player since dota1 era..i believe that any playstyle is not MISPLAYED and theres no such thing as MISPLAYED. even EHOME.LaNm play LC as support.

It's misplayed because majority of players have a negative impact on their team when they do that, lanes are weak and you're utilizing the jungle instead of having it stacked for other cores, there's not enough gold on the map to feed everyone if you're gonna afk jungle for too long (and then fall back to your own jungle again), it's better to have two supports most games so they can roam and secure kills/lanes etc.

@road to oblivion

thanks for the feedback..i now see whats missing. its about the prioritizing laning. hmm yes..thats a good point and yeah i totally agree with you. maybe jungle LC is efficient in SEA SERVER since its 5 man carry doto and theres not enough farming lane. hahaha <3

I mean it's viable, I have 60% winrate on LC mostly spamming her jungle, playing against multiple counters and so on, it's definitely viable, you just have to be good at it, like at everything else and try not to be a bother to your team, but rather help it.

@road to oblivion

yeah thats true..no matter u farm on jungle or lane u just have to be good, wise decision making on war diving and good choice of itembuild. as the matter of fact, LC jungle is most fearsome hero since theyre undetected anywhere on map (enemy believe u were at jungle whilst u where already blink/shadowblading behind him w/o him noticing). i believe jungle LC is efficient and secured 7min blink dagger, the rest depends on his decision on (when/which) hero should he duel.

its sucks cause people dont know how to jungle her lmao. fact is you can have level 7 by 6 minutes bc of talon you can rush big camps and YOU CAN HAVE 3 LEVELS IN 1ST SKILL EVEN SHE IS IN JUNGLE. this drives me crazyy seeing max 2nd and 3rd and be useles for the next couple of minutes while having points in first can help lanes with fighting.

The problem is, when you have to fall back to jungle (because your lane "partner" AA doesn't understand "please let me farm"), you'll be masively behind, if you start off in the jungle and capitalize on the early blink you're good.

Then you just feed duels and let the enemy end asap.

Reddit circlejerk is bad. This sort of thing is why I prefer dotabuff forums.

LC jungle is fine if you're sub 4k which 90% of this forum of kiddies is. Picking a support instead is just picking a weaker impact hero, cause god knows supports at that level will ward once or twice then completely forget about it the rest of the game. You'll get punished for jungling sometimes sure, but only coincidentally when they pick more aggressive laners by chance, as none of your fellow scrubs think twice about the big picture of the laning stage past what starting items to buy. So you'll have a decent winrate until maybe mid 4k which is fine for people if they don't plan on climbing higher.

^but as you climb higher, jungling anything becomes more viable because people are also better at not picking weak laners in general. You have to always realize that it's not only opponents that become better, it's also your teammates, and as much as the enemy team tries to punish your greed, your own team will keep the 2-1-1-1 laning situation in mind. So it goes both ways, from what I've heard from 5k+ players.

autistic 4k
aka
typical toxic circlejerking redditor

Aggresive lanes aren't as popular as people think. Because all the time, carries cry and tilt if they lose their lane so they always want two supports with them.

she's such a fucking great laner. lifesteal, a nuke, tanky, heal..... putting her in the jungle seems like a complete waste of early-game potential, and puts additional pressure on the rest of the team.

^enigma is also a great laner, so what? DotA isn't all about abusing people in lanes, sometimes it's more important to have exp and gold (and map control) advantage in the midgame, and having more farming cores with more map control will mean you get more of everything, as I said, if you put additional pressure while playing jungle LC, you're doing it wrong, if your team picks weak laners knowing lanes are going to be 2 - 1 - 1, that's their mistake, etc. By the time your safelane carry comes online you're likely going to have two very hard hitting cores, or three if your mid is one as well, and there aren't many team compositions that are ready to deal with that situation.

People pick jungle LC only when they want to ruin. No other reason to pick LC, such a dogshit fucking hero.

^ If I was an enigma and had the option of either jungling freely or joining my offlaner to ensure the enemy AM gets 0 farm instead of being able to bully and win the lane, then I pick the lane every time. Most people can't grasp the big picture of the game and default to the selfish mindset of trying to make their hero strong without thinking of the relative consequences that get set up for the enemy team.

Map control advantage comes from dominating your lanes, not jungling so I don't know what you were getting at.

"Map control advantage comes from dominating your lanes, not jungling so I don't know what you were getting at."

Map control also comes from having somebody on the other side of the map who can terrify anybody who wants to jungle or push out lanes on their own, so they have to group up and can't really find much farm. As I said, you shouldn't be taking your team's farm as LC, you farm your side of the jungle in the first 7 minutes, then you'll spend majority of the game on the other side of the map, jumping lone people, warding areas the enemy might farm in, split pushing, etc.

And if the enemy team has antimage, it's the least of my worries as LC - he can get his battlefury at 12 minutes, but guess what, once I am out of the jungle he's instantly dead whenever he's trying to farm alone or split push (which is what AM does). If you pick LC against embers and ams and other heroes who can't fight you early, you can do well as LC and help your team a lot because your other cores can go around the map doing things while you bully people trying to farm up for the midgame, so you snowball on the duel damage, and their cores still don't have their items.

^thats kind of a stupid assumption. Without blademail you have no way of killing Anti-Mage. And anyway he will always be 2 levels above you, and if he gets Vlads, i don't think you kill him in duel duration even if you have blademail(i am talking about early duels like 16-20 minutes). Later, manta instantly when LC blinks in because duel casting time is very bad.

Also, with the map control thingy, you make the assumption that the offlane goes close to perfectly and you can just come there with a blink, get a kill on a carry, and destroy T1 tower then invade the jungle.

Thats not going to happen. More often than not your t1 offlane tower will be dead, good luck getting duel kills on the safelane then.

I don't want to be harsh, but most of your LC rankee games are in 1.6-2.9 bracket and you were definetly better player than 2k when you started your climbing. Ofc you get ez kills and ez time in the jungle there.

And then see, when you almost reached 3k you started losing more and more games.

P.S. i don't think Battle Pass has anything to do with it, you seem to be on tilt. You fed in all of your last 5 games(ranked)

^

jungle legion shits on AM if the legion is good

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2125710269

this game AM had practically free farm and a stupid early battlefury but got shat on hard by legion the whole game

usually if AM has free farm means he's covered by supports, which means the legion is going to have a decent start in the jungle (and consequently an early blink)