General Discussion

General DiscussionPlay dirty to win, or play fair to lose

Play dirty to win, or play fair to lose in General Discussion
ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

    Here's a moral question I'm sure you all realize when you play dota: do it for the consequence or stick to your intrinsic beliefs whatever that may be since when you put it up against consequences of winning or losing, especially for ranked mmr or tournament winnings, any morals seem not as lofty and comfortable discussions or debates, but rather luxury or naive foolishness.

    Every "game" has rules, but a guy such as say, little finger doesn't fucking care, he just wants to fuck everyone and get everything anyone wants. Playing "fair" is a joke to him, maybe he never pitied anyone who has "honor" like the spider might have. Spider by the way believe in a better world where people aren't so cruel to each other(also the reason why little finger is what he is, negative karma, which also leads to question the "honor" of honorable people when they spat and shit on "lesser" beings, like Kuroky the K god fountain rampage camping.

    Riguma Borusu

      Are you taking drugs, like, right now?

      You have 47% wr, you mostly lose whatever you do anyway.

      This comment was edited
      B4N3

        Second on what will be an epic thread

        B4N3

          You know nothing 冰蛙我错了求你原谅我

          Riguma Borusu

            Yeah, I am still pretty happy we don't have notifications on dbuff, else this guy would spam you every time he writes another 17 posts in the same thread.

            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

              Little finger is the biggest believer of ladder system, and he might definitely be well over 9000 before anyone reached 6k. but here's the thing that nobody seems to talk about : what the fuck is out there for him or anyone at the end? I mean there was a comic that says once you reach 8k and get into a team and win ti you never want to play with the same team again or it suggest even if you do you can't win again. Be that as it may it's still a dream of many ti champions to be two times ti player, not to mention for the vast majority of pros they haven't even won once. And even if you won 5 times in a roll, something like a Sharapova status, then what, are you really that much more of a human being than say the average leddit 8k mmr guy or a peasant normal guy like me, someone who obviously did NOT go through much actions taken meaning to wipe out any fellow adversaries of themselves to prove something to whoever.

              ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                Mostly, most people can just say : I don't fucking care. I do what I believe is right, it's my fucking business. Your full of shit. I don't want to hear any of it, even if I do I can still prove you are wrong.

                B4N3

                  The point of winning TI is to get 1 million dollars and party in Ibiza with the fine ass ladies.

                  ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                    But ask yourself this: would you really want a world where the idea " fair " doesn't exist at all? Would you even so much as can bear living without the many moralities that ensures your way of living even if you don't even realize it? When you were a kid, people wouldn't dare to expose sex or cursing in your presence, when you grow older people would let you take their seats on a bus, would you really so far as deny these benefits you get from these "general" morals? Or would you simply take whatever the world has for you and crush whatever's against you, if you can?

                    ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                      Partying in ibiza is also proving something to yourself, or others, that you "got there did that", whatever arbitrary thing you come up with

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                      B4N3

                        I ask you though Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

                        ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                          Your way of fun is obviously not in line with mine, there is no philosopher in Ibiza waiting to get trolled by you so please, have my condolences.

                          You being on dotabuff forum might suggest you so much as care a bit if at all about the statistical aspect of dota instead of just playing it for the sake of it, that's you coming to terms to the fact that there's not just the "practical" side of things, there's not just the surface of what seems to happen.

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                          B4N3

                            What are your thoughts on the theory than Ned Stark Warged into Illyn Payne?

                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                              never heard of it, but if you really want to be blunt, please stay away from my threads. I won't respond to you again.

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                              saving private RTZ

                                Dude its freaking dota.

                                And i'll tell you something about life. Life isn't easy, life isn't nice to you, life will punch you in the face. So stop thinking about what is right and shit or to do somth on the hard way and not the easy way or others shit like that. Thats not being fair, thats being stupid. When u want to do something in life, trust me, you should try to do it eazy as possible, don't waste time,others time, money, energy, etc thats how u get influence.

                                Also, people like you need a reality check.

                                TLDR i dont care about what others consider to be fair. I care about my
                                own succes. Also, you seem to he a dreamer, dreamers don't do anything in life but keep dreaming.

                                Other than that, i suggest you delete this game, and go to a psychologist. I think Dota destroyed your life lmfao

                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                  Let me put it another way: No matter how good of a "player" someone is, he's no superhuman god, he cannot see all and thus cannot act accordingly, and adapt accordingly---we all have various resistence to change to adapt. We all have some " self " in us that we believe is endearing and central to our existence yet in some situations and some ways might not be the perfect if not at all even benefitial to itself according to its normal reactions. To let go of that might mean we lose some of " ourself" whatever that may be, it might mean we become something else, whether that be evolving or devolving or simply a natural diversion, reversible or not.

                                  GM_Kappablanca

                                    i swallow every bit of pride and suck the dick of my russian carry on voicechat if it means i get +25. tryhard everytime and do everything for team.

                                    ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                      Your success relies on other people giving you things, things you consider worthy of success. You are no god, you cannot cheat your way all through having people shove shit to you without knowing that you don't appreciate a bit at all

                                      Soultrap

                                        Play dirty = cheating? Something like map hacks to see everything?

                                        ooooooooooo
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                                          saving private RTZ

                                            How many succesful people got there by being "fair"? None.

                                            they say u have to do something cause you love it, and not because you want money.

                                            You know what Bill Gates said? He did it because he loved money.
                                            Think about it. And delete dota.

                                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                              Let me put it another way relevant to dota: every great player has a fuck ton of fanboys, but every great dota player also has a fuck ton of haters. Why is that? Why do people love him and others hate him, or both at the same time? Or say a random normal player, why can he carry one game for player B, and another game completely throw and make the player B report him? It's because through interations with others we define ourselves, it goes both ways, in every sense. Yes we only experience one version, but that's because the other version is experienced by someone else, which is exactly what signifies that we are every one of us never actually stand alone. We are all of us just a part of a much much bigger whole, like a russian doll of infinite loops

                                              B4N3

                                                What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

                                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                  bill gates or whoever else, it's all the same. It's their choice.

                                                  saving private RTZ

                                                    No we are not.

                                                    Seriously you may keep dreaming about all these russian dolls till you are 80 or do something with your life.

                                                    You are not a russian doll or wtf you are saying.

                                                    ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                      You just take value in being respected. Without other people's respect famous people cannot live on. If someone so much as love to expose Bill gates or insert xx famous people as much as you claim bill gates love thus earns money, then he's totally fucked and he will probably lose anything he has.

                                                      ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                        I am the mirror of your comments. Together we form one shell of russian doll enclosure. Without me you can't have this argument, without me your comment never happened.

                                                        saving private RTZ

                                                          You don't get respect by being fair. You earn respect by having power and influence. And you sont get that by being fair either. You just look stupid.
                                                          Morality isn't something you should care for in life imo, ofc only if its smth illegal like killing someone or stealing

                                                          ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                            the computer you use, the keyboard the mouse, the software you use, none of them are your own, when you play your dota game every time, it's icefrog's programming, it's bill gates' programming or steve jobs, plus a bazillion whoever the fuck that you neither care about or gives 2 shit but without whom you can't even play a dota game . Of course you don't realize all these or give a fuck every time you play and it's "irrelevant" but you see that's exactly why you resist it, it's so fundamental to your live that you depend on the whole fucking world around you, everyone who has a sense of "self" resent the whole world to a degree too

                                                            Dire Wolf

                                                              unless you are using hacks there is no such thing as dirty play in dota. It's a video game, it has rules, you cannot break them without hacking.

                                                              ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                laws are there because of human weakness. But it isn't there because it's a perfect road map of human weakness(sins etc evil subcounciousness etc), it's just a set of things that like you said, powerful and influencial people enforces on lesser people.

                                                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                  Dire wolf take that to Hao who got raped by fountain hook, or should I list 100000 other cases

                                                                  saving private RTZ

                                                                    Not at all.

                                                                    I literally consider me a god, i am the only one to matters in my life. Other people are just servants who help me to achieve my goals

                                                                    saving private RTZ

                                                                      And never say that word sin again. There is no such thing.

                                                                      Relentless

                                                                        Kappablanca knows exactly what he wants. +25 MMR

                                                                        Game of Thrones doesn't know what he wants, but I do. It's Jesus. No matter how far you search you will never find another answer to all you want to know about who you are and why you are. People sometimes don't like to admit it, but Jesus really is God. He will win everything in the end. He has the only eternal meaningfullness, the only lasting prizes, the only real love, the only true knowledge. He is the source of life and without Jesus you will accomplish nothing, feel souless emptyness, and experience boring desolation forever.

                                                                        It doesn't matter what you personally wish or imagine is true. Jesus, being the real God, is actually in control of eveyrthing. His truth will swallow up and erase your pathetic, fake version of reality. It's just a matter of time. So flail around like a worm on a hook all you want, but every knee will still bow and every tongue still confess that He is Lord of All.

                                                                        Why fight for your fake imaginary life until you die? Accept real life and live forever. Play to win.

                                                                        Soultrap

                                                                          @Allu
                                                                          "Morality isn't something you should care for in life imo, ofc only if its smth illegal like killing someone or stealing"

                                                                          I see contradiction here.

                                                                          WonderWaiter

                                                                            Honor in dota? you wanna die virgin son?

                                                                            I Hanter I

                                                                              Japanese weaboo with 47% win rate.

                                                                              Ye I've seen enough dotabuff today.

                                                                              Dunning-Kruger-Doto

                                                                                Go see a doctor. And quit dota. Not good for your mind.

                                                                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                                  take that to people who got raped by ratting, who's gonna most likely already have complained on various places how yawnfest or bad it makes the game as it were at the time they got raped, and thus influenced the meta shift to less ratting since ti3, or those who said fast push balling is boring to watch and would want things to slow down so they have room to breathe thus resulting in the more than a year long meta since ti4 that we have, of games averaging out at ~30-40 min with less early game and less late game and mostly only mid game action.

                                                                                  saving private RTZ

                                                                                    ^ i meant that morality shouldn't be set in place by others( like laws) but ofc some of them are necessary otherwise world would be a chaos. But for instance, the navi-TongFu game with the famous Fountain hooks, i wont feel too imorale in Navis place

                                                                                    Its hard for me to explain cause i cant find the english terms but i mean that some i dont really care what others consider morale unless its something against the law. Which again is a contradiction to what i said on the first line but there i mentioned laws just as an example of morality being set in place by others

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                                                                                    Soultrap

                                                                                      @Allu
                                                                                      Morality is a simple deal: I don't kill you, you don't kill me.

                                                                                      @冰蛙我错了求你原谅我
                                                                                      Fountain hooks or ratting is not "dirty". Dirty is when you intentionally lose the game for $322 or use -refresh (a.k.a. -w33fresh).

                                                                                      ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                                        All I am saying is: if you believe that the individual matter, then even against the whole system which the individual indeniably relies on, thrives and dies on, his own happiness and misfortunes should count equally against the whole, because that's what it means to be individual, is to have individual dignity that at some degree doesn't bow down to a larger "self" that not only consist of other "selves" but also each has their own "dignity", and so even if most people think it was ok that Navi got through with fountain cheating Hao out of his ti3 dream, it wasn't ok for HAO and that should matter somehow, for the system. And indeed that's what happened, as icefrog patched it out, but only later, where no TI3money was involved, thus effectively negating the self of Hao out of the equation yet somewhat paid tribute to that sacrifice in the form of an evolution of the system's "fairness"

                                                                                        or if you believe against that then hao's sacrifice was never for nothing, the exposure was meant to happen and the patch. Lesser "tricks", lesser "skills" shouldn't matter either, as they don't get major attention, and is all of a sudden, part of the game, or if put bluntly, part of minority selves who uses them as means to reign over the majority of others, which of course will inevitably spread in various speed, the cancer that is (insert any op hero/strat of any patch), and of course for all these cases those bitching and moaning were just like Hao, and of course they don't fucking matter and just got crushed under the wheel of history.

                                                                                        Or do they?

                                                                                        saving private RTZ

                                                                                          @Relentless

                                                                                          Why are you so sure. Im not contesting the presence of a Creator but
                                                                                          Why would be Jesus? There are literally tens, probably hundreds of religions, why would be christians right but islamists wrong about Allah.

                                                                                          And honestly i dont buy everything the Bible has to sell. So there is a god who will punish us, make our sinful souls burn in hell or others shits like that but he still loves us.

                                                                                          Or maybe a Creator dont exist. We'll probably never know.

                                                                                          Same about Jesus. Maybe he was god. Maybe he was just someone trying to get influence, and he succeded. Maybe he was just someone with mental problems thinking he is more special. We'll never know

                                                                                          saving private RTZ

                                                                                            Hao didnt got crushed by the "wheel of history". He won 5× more money the next year

                                                                                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                                              Is it fair to be unfair, I think that's the central paradox. Because you all know that nothing is fair, but nobody wants to be at the other end of the knife. Yet as a player of life we are all gonna die one day, as the ultimate cut.

                                                                                              saving private RTZ

                                                                                                ^and thats why i want to live my life as i want cause in the end ill be dead.End of discussion, nothing else matters, i think you found your answer.

                                                                                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                                                  I'm saying at the time. And I know hao's a special flower to many people, effectively validating him a special flower pretty much, albeit many people still think he's dumb too, including getting fountain hooked.

                                                                                                  Dire Wolf

                                                                                                    ratting is a legit strat, it's not dirty, many people just don't enjoy the play style. Same with playing techies.

                                                                                                    And the fountain hook thing was perfectly fine, the team figured out how to do it and used it. Other teams just didn't figure that strat out. Then devs decided to nerf it. Fine, but at the time it was within the rules.

                                                                                                    Soultrap

                                                                                                      @Allu
                                                                                                      It's easy to be realist, when you are young. You may try to carry your realism through your life. But... Older you get - more you believe in God.

                                                                                                      ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                                                        And about those outcries, they may have gotten their piece of justice after their suffering, they may have afked instead of went on to win a ti, whichever the case, what about those who used to be the knifers, and afterwards became the lambs? The idea of minority justice never really exist, one can argue, even the idea of greater good. Where is the world going when there's always someone suffering no matter what you do to change it? When you don't see the door do you really know where you are going in a maze? Even if you'd like to think you have some kind of map? Are our desires for a fairer game ever validated in the short or long run if at all, or are we simply better off having total chaos and fuck whatever happens? Why do most still play identifies with a "fair " game of dota , and only ever so few play say imba 10v10 , even imbalanced pvp games outside dota?

                                                                                                        Is it such a mystery whether there's a point to fairness or the seek for better fairness? Tell me that it's no more than a limited and forever so mirage of society and civilization hiding under its true savage and grotesque nature, or tell me that it is the desperate yet glorious climb to higher truth no matter how unlikely like how mankind discovered fire or invented the wheel, will never perish.

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