General Discussion

General DiscussionTheorycrafting/summoning all Mechanics lords: how does blademail, bkb...

Theorycrafting/summoning all Mechanics lords: how does blademail, bkb, lotus orb, linken interacts with each other in General Discussion
ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

    omni doesn't have any spells that need channeling, that's definitely not cool to maximize the use of such build. I'm thinking bane or enigma

    Soultrap

      Town Portal Scroll timeline:
      135g >>> 6.82 patch >>> 100g >>> 6.85 patch >>> 75g

      =)

      DC.MASON

        nobody would buy them even if they were for free

        Soultrap

          ^Yeah, waste of itemslot...

          Skim

            @OP/自尊>一切: Please refrain from spamming a thread with multiple responses in a row - you can instead just edit your previous answer

            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

              yeah I know it's just easier and more natural, plus I am obviously talkative and that was like a work in progress, sorry will do and add edit 1 edit 2 etc until someone does a reply XD

              EDit 1:(XD) last game was too fun, although enemy kinda gave up after weaver dc for a minute, was fun to be able to last nearly forever as omni while missing healz on sniper who's getting special treatment from slardar

              Edit 2: I think this build is definitely hard to shut down and hjigher skill capped and more fun to play than say hellrack wk which also kinda forces the enemy in a situation where they want to kill you but can't really kill you off, except instead of offering stuns and tons of aoe damage and good right clicks, you are doing tons of healz and all kinds of good stuff, you don't need to farm shit at all for one, and you have total control over the tempo of the teamfight, the only aggresion you have is an aoe damage which also heals around some certain ally including self, also tons of choices, that plus your aoe slow which is so easily ignored, subtle but so fucking real and lethal,and everything else is passive aggresion too like all the dispels and immunities and reflections etc, keeping yourself alive is so eazy it's very natural to be able to have that free time to think about protecting your teammates well, but most importantly the enemy's movement so they stay in range of your slow, anticipate their moves so you can be steps ahead to have the cds for counter measures or apply immunities ahead

              Edit 3: looking at a couple omni spammers I see a few favoring linken and greaves other than that most people do the poor support route with eggs, which is just sad to see.. I wouldn't bank my money on that long cd ult for 2 seconds more..and the global...with the nerf on tb the last possible split pusher not sure if it has much use?

              Edit 4: again the reason why things like necro omni and abba are always top winrate is because they are one of the few heroes in dota 2 that is not so much aggresive as they are defensive healers, I mean of course, every hero in dota is a badass and they kick ass, but few does healing like legit, if at all. That few rare qualities is what makes them so strong and deciding in teamfights, only, omni does such a role way way way better than the rest.

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                Soultrap

                  @自尊>一切
                  You logic flawed. Best healer is IO, but his winrate resides on the bottom of the ocean.

                  ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                    ^io is a much much more showboating hero, not my style exactly. as for overall winrate isn't there xtr or dtr whatever his name is who's an io god? won 100 ranked in a roll or something

                    This comment was edited
                    Skim

                      @OP: NP, I feel the same way in a lot of sense, although I've come to talk/write much less (or well, I write a lot but I usually end up deleting half if not more of it)

                      @soultrap: IO may be a healer, but he demands a lot of teamwork to fully function. I think it's much easier to work with an Omni/Aba, whereas I'd need to be in constant communication - and on the same page, as an Io. Not to mention I'd argue it's more difficult to play io, because it requires deep understanding of a lot of factors (especually in teamfights, knowing which players to follow, which targets are best to heal and when a Relocate could be important)

                      Soultrap

                        @Skim
                        That is what I wanted to say. Omni has high winrate not because he is good healer, but because he is easy to play.

                        ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                          io isn't exactly hard to play in terms of like, intuitively. You can't intuitively understand say invoker without proper guides and a lot of practice, but io, io is a bit more straight forward, but yes it's the hardest healer to play right, and single target healing is rivaled by none, but the things he can do for the whole team pales in comparison to omni--it'd be a good choice for single core lineup but then everyone knows that through tiny wisp, not that it's not in the meta nowadays but io isn't even seen in pubs often for average pubber to know how to cooperate as said

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                          Riguma Borusu

                            IO is way harder than Invoker, if you want to play either effectively.

                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                              I mean...that's just cus invoker is more popular so guides are abundant, if you are learning without guides I think invoker is the one with steeper curve

                              Edit: I am looking at glimmer cape and solar crest and I think theses are along the lines of aggresive builds if you want to go that route a blink is also considerable along with aghanims so you have a bit more time since you are initiating, but in reality how many times can any line up keep going in and out without getting any casualties, if not a stomp. Maybe if the team really needs more of aggresive utility, these along with force and euls could work.

                              edit2: people could also argue the buffed diffusal can threaten ok, but we are talking 5 dispels(one team aoe) with the full build, not to mention you can also get your own diffusal

                              edit3: i never intended this for any specific hero, this is supposed to be a strat for any hero if the time calls for it or if you feel like screwing around for fun. greaves and blademail really screw shit up and turn the tide, bkb lotus and linken mechanics were explained by someone here already and it sounds like all these don't stack diminishingly. omni might be too tough to pull off to learn these items strat, did a stat reflection spectre, fed all early game and I guess the enemy got confused enough to throw the game against my 4 teammates, but late game spectre can actually transition back , but I'm gonna keep trying spectre first until at least a close game or two with said full items happen, see if the game can be closed easily with all said items, or how to transition back to more traditional dps. Lotus is definitely very very situational, but even just a windrager ensnare reflect can make or break a teamfight, so you never really know, and with doom being hot again, reflected doom is definitely op. It'd be more op if you buy linken you don't even get it yourself. and of course if doom wants to go refresher so can you, just make sure you refresh for the linken, don't wait to cast other skills or items cus if you are doomed you can't even refresh, and 1 whole set of item/skill usage plus a block is always better than 1 block .

                              with a short duration of a couple days I've transitioned completely from a farmer(I blame antimage and shadowfiend) to a fighter. I hope icefrog completely remove farming one day, it's already fucking obsolete anyways

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                              PTSD

                                I saw this tinker with greaves bots BOOM
                                iNFINITE PUSH

                                ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                  lol tinker with greaves sounds lame

                                  Edit: about refresher vs octa core on omni for that build, refresher is for 20 second fights, and octa core is for 10 second fights or 30 second fights without need of 2nd ult, I think you should think about how many things your team can dish out before they die, and same for enemy and make a choice. it's not a simple thing as far as any normal random hero's playstyle where you just focus on how and when to use skills and standard items and positioning and whatnot, keeping items off cooldown for fights, but it's like with any hero that uses a situational octa core--it really changes the scope of the fights, but with omni it's especially situational because within 1 minute timeframe you really don't benefit from a faster second ult.

                                  so if teamfights happen really rapidly but doesn't last long each time then octa core is probably preferred, because it shortens the super long ult cd just enough for a faster paced fighting schedule, and makes the shorter cd skills and items even shorter too allowing you to use multiple in a short fight and a ton of times in a super long one exceeding the scope of refresher ult; refresher is optimal for multipe usage of longer skills and items such as ulti, bkb etc and optimal when used during longer fights instead of after fights passively just so you have the cd ready the next time(it'd be a surprise if they don't know you have refresher and force another fight soon but other than that I don't see why they should ignore the fact you only used ult once), longer fights where you don't need octa core and still can land multiple small skills, and such fights wear down both sides enough they can't regroup soon before your ult cd is up without octa. But truth be told you really need to clutch the timings against the ultimates on both teams, if yours is just fast enough you can force fights instead of wasting that shorter cd helping the other team by waiting for them to be ready, if yours is longer you put your team in danger of getting ult jumped without your ult

                                  if you buy both, counting greaves you would be to deduct any one of the 4 items (blademail bkb linken lotus) depending on the situation

                                  bkb allows you to roam relatively freely on the battlefield but it doesn't exactly synergize well with blademail and linken, lotus slaps back all the targeted spells and items which is wacky at best but can do wonders unless enemy has like NO targeted shit at all, linken with or without the other items can help block out a crucial bkb piercing spell/item but if they have tons of useless shit to throw on you to break it even with refresher then it becomes a total waste of slot especially with bkb, blademail reflects anything that goes through the others but is useless against bkbs and is cheapest among the 4 and is bought earliest, so if you really want to get the maximum potential with enough gold as far as the most amount of clicking...octa over blademail for sure cus there's just a lot more smaller cd stuff here than higher cd stuff(ult is really the only big guy), and sheep over lotus since you can now choose among 5 instead of 4 lolz

                                  I currently have 4 strats to play with : omni with said items(utility heal), spectre with said items(dieback reflection none stop fighting), hellrake wraith king(old story never gets old), blademail octa mjonir legion(haven't tried yet but people are saying it's really effective) and mid warlock eggs refresher which was a reddit thread.

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