To be frank, it's not completely bad idea but in 3 of those 4 games, you got carried. Leshrac, Templar and Lycan seem like mvps. The way you put it is kinda misleading.
Also you can attend teamfights with Battlefury. Sure Vanguard is way cheaper but AM without Fury isn't something to be scared of. He will only have Mana Void and will lack right click output. I mean I use Shadow Blade / Silver Edge on Lycan, I kinda feel how someone thinks of himself as innovative but...
the old traditional way of playing AM is to go Vanguard. This build started since the dota 1 days and the first International. To stop the carries from going vanguard 1st item back then, IceFrog made serious nerfs on Vanguard. Vanguard nowadays can't be compared to the old Vanguard, and since many people start playing dota 2 after this " Vanguard " era, it happens to be the case when the " Battlefury for AM " era reaches its peak so the folks find the Vanguard build really strange and dumb. oh well, Vanguard or not, i think AM really needs Battlefury to speed up his farming with a very nice farming tool he already has, the Blink. Vanguard is not a bad choice, it strengthens AM in the physical dmg block, plus with his natural magic dmg block, he's not that easy to be killed.
@Odinn21, It's not really misleading when I said that I won the games together with my team, I didn't say that I carried my team.
You can still have Vanguard/Treads/Vladimirs/Manta before 25 minute mark, the only bad thing about not going Battlefury is that you don't have any mana regen for your blinks and that you can't flash farm but that's pretty much the only bad thing about it.
@Natural Selection, I've started Playing Dota around November 2013, I don't know if there was a difference between Vanguard right now and then, could you show me the difference in stats? I'm curious. And if you're going Battlefury you're aiming for the late game, Anti Mage is not a late game carry, that's why I want to finish games around the 30 minute mark.
![Ath[e]isT](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/fe/fef49e7fa7e1997310d705b2a6158ff8dc1cdfeb_full.jpg "Ath[e]isT")
@Ath[e]ist @H^ yes, it gave 300 hp, and 70% to block 60 dmg ( compared to nowadays 75% to block 40 dmg and +250 hp )
@Ath[e]isT, Vanguard has always been my favourite item, especially on Spectre and Anti Mage, just gives a good feeling to know you have it in your inventory.
@Natural Selection, well even though it got slightly nerfed, it's still a good item to become more tanky early game.
i'm not rejecting the idea of the Vanguard AM, i was just saying that the most people now don't prioritize or realize the impact Vanguard has on AM due to the downfall of the Vanguard era
@Natural Selection, I completely understand your point, in some of these games people were actually saying ''LOL VANGUARD AM?" "GG VANGUARD AM" "REPORT AM VANGUARD" "THIS GUY WATCHED PUPPEY STREAM SO HE BUILD VANGUARD HAHA" things like that.
I just mute those people and concentrate on my own game if that happends.
only young blood would laughed at Vanguard AM. back then, even Weaver built Vanguard, let alone AM.
@Natural Selection, well. You know I don't really like farming for like 30+ minutes straight and then join a team fight, it's just boring and going Battlefury Anti Mage every game just becomes too repetitive, skipping Battlefury kinda forces you to fight together with your team because you can't flash farm which is kinda a good thing and bad thing at the same time but skipping Battlefury does save you 4.4k cash that you can spend on Vanguard/Vladimirs.
there's one point i don't agree with you, that AM can't be a hard carrry. To be honest, AM is the fundamental hero for the hard carry role. He, along side with Spectre and Weaver are the 3 iconic carry heroes of this game. After the downfall of Spectre and Weaver, and with the rise of new carries ( like PL, Gyro ), somehow AM still makes it into the metas in various patches.
Well, most people say AM isn't a hard carry, I kinda am on the edge of 50/50 of saying he's not a hard carry and he is a hard carry.
the 2 undisputed hard carries imo are Spectre and PL. People still have doubts on AM being the hard carry so i'm just gonna leave him there.
@Odinn21, It's not really misleading when I said that I won the games together with my team, I didn't say that I carried my team.
You can still have Vanguard/Treads/Vladimirs/Manta before 25 minute mark, the only bad thing about not going Battlefury is that you don't have any mana regen for your blinks and that you can't flash farm but that's pretty much the only bad thing about it.
@Natural Selection, I've started Playing Dota around November 2013, I don't know if there was a difference between Vanguard right now and then, could you show me the difference in stats? I'm curious. And if you're going Battlefury you're aiming for the late game, Anti Mage is not a late game carry, that's why I want to finish games around the 30 minute mark.
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i didn't say i carried my team. so what role did you choose? feeders? AM is carry and you didn't carried your team. and no battle fury is not aiming for late game.
with his blink and farming capabilities. he can fully 6 slotted ( with good stacks ( multiple stacks ( on many camps ( any camps )))) in either 30 min or 35 min. and when he came online like that he can just end the game at 30min probably 40-45 min max.
Wtf weaver iconic carry? I remember my older brother playing wc3 dota and id say iconic carries are magina, mercurial and mortred? Or lycan.
OT: it doesnt offer anything, you will be underleveld compared to a bfury AM, underfarmed. And there are simply much better carries who can fight early. You said you finish game by min 30, well with battlefjry by tbat min you already have treads, vlads,bfury, manta + bfly/heart/abyssal. With aegis you can end game right there
I feel naga and medusa are also hard carry along with spectre and pl.
Couldnt see am as hard carry -_-
as hard carry or 'normal' carry it doesn't matter
BF is important, just like kitrak said without BF u lose farm,push, and fight capabilities as anti mage. and u can't use that blink to full performance.
i've lost and win many games where AM -ratting- our or their barracks. without BF you can't do that.
Anti-Mage's biggest strength is his superior farming speed, by skipping battlefury you're not taking advantage of it at all. Late game you should be 2-3 items ahead of the enemy carry with a battlefury. Without it you'll just fall off late game if your net worth is even or worse. He's an amazing split-pusher as well, but you have no wave clear without it either, so you eventually just become useless.
If you can't farm effectively with him, it's better to pick other heroes for fighting.
@ Rin <3 Idk why u became so hostile, I don't know why u added me into the category ''feeders'' aswell because I barely died in any of those 4 games + In order to get really farmed etc, you should atleast have some map control and your team shouldn't get completely run over or else you can't farm.
I think BF > Treads > Manta > Octarine Orb > BKB > Necro 3 is most powerful build for AM, most powerful, most powerful, powerful... powerful... you're getting sleepy, when you wake up you will play AM and use this item build and be flamed hard but still win
Can't make yokes on the internet without one hillbilly taking it serious, tnx blunt for not letting me down
@ Rin <3 Idk why u became so hostile, I don't know why u added me into the category ''feeders'' aswell because I barely died in any of those 4 games + In order to get really farmed etc, you should atleast have some map control and your team shouldn't get completely run over or else you can't farm.
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it's not hostile, u pick carry and u said u didn't carried your team. so something wrong with ur carry right? if you are not carrying your team when you pick carry. what are you? feeders? support? hard support? offlaner? spectators?
@kitrak In lower skilled games your teammates work against you farming almost every game. You'll have a support maybe even 2 if trilane sitting in your lane pretty much accomplishing nothing soaking exp, pulling the lane without double pull to medium camp or hard camp depending on which safe lane. You'll have a offlane or mid player come to your lane and fail with timing for gank or fail a gank so they'll fight you for 1 or 2 lanes of cs before they TP out. Your supports will try to last hit under tower and completely fuck up your last hitting or they'll just try in general to steal last hits.
It's not always the player, it's just a general rule of thumb to ask yourself in these games what can I do different to mitigate the damage from these problems and still get decent timing on your BF.
@Rin, Idk why you are talking really you pretend like you know much yet you play in normal/high skill bracket, I have no clue what you are trying to achieve on this thread, trying to tell me that if I don't wanna farm I shouldn't pick AM and then I don't carry my team, I'm sure you know all of this better considering you're around 3k trench tier.
@Blunt, I'm 4.7k mmr lol.
@H^ mmm isnt really as you say, i think BF AM is stronger even early game than a VG rush with vlads, cause you can pick another hero to do that.. BF AM can splitpush like a fucking naga siren and cut waves like crazy, if you are going jungle just after BF and stay there while the enemy team rolls over your team you are doing wrong you can apply a lot of pressure pushing between towers, someone needs to defend...
The thing is, everybody is too hyped with this 5man meta thing and they try to focus in early TF with heroes that simply dont do that
Maybe you are better with gyro and you dont know :P
"@kitrak In lower skilled games your teammates work against you farming almost every game. "
QFFT, cannot stress this enough. I was playing sniper, not the same as AM, but enemy team had taken all our towers but now rax yet. We had this stupid ass tinker on our team. Every time a wave got with shooting distance he'd go march it, then tp to another lane, push that out with march etc, but we never actually took any towers, just ping ponged the lanes back and forth and no one could farm but him. And a tinker at that point doesn't need fucking farm.
Same deal with AM, you can lose a lane stage and no big deal if you have a full jungle or heaven forbid a stacked jungle to work with, but most pubs are so fucking greedy, you'll get kotls and pudges clearing jungle camps.
Like this match, http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1749783793 whole game pudge and nightstalker were pushing waves and clearing jungle, couldn't get any farm. I told them to fucking stop and let carry farm or we were going to lose, and that's exactly what happened. I think I had 100 cs at min 30, terrible but no where to go farm and naix can't wave clear so he needs people to leave them creeps alone.
@Dire Wolf, I've had multiple games where I had a dumb Tinker in my team that was pushing out all the lanes when I was playing a carry, I couldn't farm anywhere, neither could I farm in the jungle since he was farming in the jungle aswell, in the end we still lose this Tinker said ''report retard team and report retard carry no items''.
Outfarm with BF and create space. Win the game.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1764866245
Vanguard, lel.
@Rin, Idk why you are talking really you pretend like you know much yet you play in normal/high skill bracket, I have no clue what you are trying to achieve on this thread, trying to tell me that if I don't wanna farm I shouldn't pick AM and then I don't carry my team, I'm sure you know all of this better considering you're around 3k trench tier.
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it's simple. goal of anti mage is farm and achieve six slotted before enemy carries did. and end game just like that. with blink and BF he can reach 6 slotted EASILY.
look at match before me he got 800 GPM, 6 slotted before storm blood slark pudge get farmed. with just fucking vanguard what can you do? you can not outfarm your opponent carries. and you as carry FAIL carrying your team.
you stated it yourself.
"It's not really misleading when I said that I won the games together with my team, I didn't say that I carried my team."
you are carry and you didn't carried your team on your game. then what are you? spectators? even 3k know more and better lol. good ol' days is dead. change.
@rin
u dont have a single game in vh why r u telling ppl how to play the game
u think he doesnt know how to play am?? or what a carry is??
u dont even have enough knowledge or mechanics of the game for me to take ur opinion serously and ur flaming ppl
why dont u try listening and getting better than posting ur trash opinion
@OP:I was refering to the 2k dude with his trollpost with octabuild AM. Not you, i approve of vanguard AM, since this patch 4v5 = autloss.
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Everyone knows this ''classical old Battlefury build'' where you get it fast (before 15 minute mark) to get six slotted before 35 minutes and then carry your team to victory but this build only works if your team doesn't get completely destroyed and makes space for you. If your team is having a hard time and is being run over because it's 4v5 and I completely understand why you can't get a fast Battlefury because you just don't have any space since the enemy team is getting so much map control you can't safely farm even your own jungle. Let's say you're losing really hard and you get your Battlefury at ~20 minutes meanwhile you've lost all your T2 towers and enemy is pushing high ground and then look at you, you're sitting at 20 minutes with a Battlefury and boots, you can't even get out of your own base without nearly dying and you can't do anything against the enemy team/enemy carries because they've got so much gold from all that pushing/running over your team that you just have to sit back and watch you lose all your rax and finally lose the game because you couldn't do anything.
Here's the thing though, ofcourse it's all about player preferences but I'm a person that likes to play aggressive, looks out to helping his teammates, I buy a tp scroll as fast as I can early game and once I am around level 6 I watch the other lanes all the time if my teammates are being ganked so I can teleport in and save them or get a counter kill. As soon as I get my first item I immediately want to take a fight and that's why Anti Mage is actually a very usefull carry especially when he hits level 6-11-16. When the enemy team has alot of intelligence heroes with a big mana pool makes him even more usefull in fights even when he's not that farmed. IMO it's good to finish a game early so the enemy team doesn't have a chance to come back in late game.
The items I build on Anti Mage are:
Shield > Magic Wand > Brown Boots > Vanguard > Treads > Vladimirs Offering and then just attend team fights, you will run over the enemy team and will get your gold for your items because you're getting all the kills which makes up for the time that you didn't farm.
I've played 4 games with going Anti Mage Vanguard first item and skipping Battlefury completely to attend team fights in early game, the enemy team just couldn't do anything because I was actually there in team fights helping my own team instead of pushing a lane out to get money for late game items that you don't even need to win the game. I managed to finish all of them together with my team around the 30 minute mark:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1763077283
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1763041611
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1760632630
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1760118003
What about getting Battlefury first item (before 10-11 minutes if possible) and then get Vanguard after? Would that be bad or not.