my personal standards in pub solo queue is:
- Stat items or any Tanky items for the 1st 15 minutes
- 15th minute to 30th minute should be for Radiance
- Final stretch would be 35th minute for Radiance but this is not applicable if enemy team is snowballing.
If you cannot manage to get that 3.8k within those boundaries, then go for Diffusal.
This is a very generic reply but there are a lot more situations that you need to adapt to
Yea but i was wondering what might be close to perfect build which can counter everything lol . PA and every shit hero ..
One cannot say stun and kill spectre because its not actually that easy .
Read somewhere 2 skadi build on spectre but dont think it will actually be that efficient.
there's no such thing as perfect build. you should be able to adapt always.
there is a generic build though and that would be "Phase Boots -> Vanguard/Drums --> Radiance --> Heart --> Manta/Butterfly/Diffuse"
Yea I placed my question in wrong way. Agreed that there is no perfect build. I should be asking if radiance is better item in <18 min or diffusal <18 better? considering when you ahve to come in fight at all times.
in my opinion if you are behind and want to fight building for a manta is better than diffusal even though its more expensive, if you are ahead radiance
When you say, "You have to come in fight at all times", I would assume that you mean You have to "reality in" at all times
I think the premise has to be questioned. Why is there such a need?
1. Not enough DPS during the actual clash? Can you not haunt after people are low HP already?
2. Allies too soft so someone has to tank through it? Then build more stat items?
Diffusal can be an option for item #1 but only under these circumstances:
1. The item can pave the way for your 25-35 minute radiance
2. The item can give you a considerable advantage in the kill score
If diffusal is just a means to get through the mid game and by 35th minute you still don't have anything then it's a bad choice.
Personally, i might recommend to give up the mid game, play ninja farming and have that radiance by the time late game starts.
The impact of having Radiance is so big that it can make you win "early late game" even after losing the "mid game"
^ Yea makes sense. I mentioned that I had to be in fight because if spectre isnt there, then generally my team will be losing and other team targets to push tower and end match before entering late game.
It totally depend on situation about haunting low HP. Once opposition over committed and spectre was able to get easy triple kills or 2 kills is also doable but that stupidity rarely happens.
It isnt possible for me atleast to get diffusal 1st and get rad by 35 min, vice versa is possible though. I think then it would make sense to have boots and radiance as first items and not even aim to get diffusal unless opposition has someone like omni or such hero.
Say I got Boots & Rad , Which will be best thing to make? Kills get easy once radiance is ready. So directly aim for skadi or butterfly or go to them via Manta?
Also Manta -> skaddi or Manta ->butterfly , which is better in terms of damage? I think survivability will be equal in both case?
Would be awesome if this forum had sub-forums or at least a search function....we had a long spectre discussion already this week :-)
Honestly, I only tried Spectre Skadi maybe once or twice and I was way overfarmed so I'm not really able to measure how effective it can be.
Theory-crafting, Skadi will make sense to me for the "slow". So this would be cases when I am going against high dps agi carries who are able to stand toe to toe with me. I'm primarily thinking of an SF BKB.
But I don't think Skadi alone can do the job. It would just be an extension item for me after an IAS item such as Manta or Butterfly.
Why not Skadi for stats? Because Manta is easier to build and gives you defensive utility against some debuffs.
diff > radi, radi is a worst item for spectre, skadi if u didnt buy heart otherwise butter
I'd prefer Diffusal Blade over Radiance as 1st big item due to cost difference. Spectre with Diffusal gets online faster than with Radiance.
Also Butterfly is a better choice than Skadi.
Why are ppl hating radiance?
Radiance seem to be better choice than diffusal if one can make rad around 20 min. It increases overall farm rate and damage. Couldnt see advantage of diffusal except for lockdown.
Also, I tried skadi spectre :) and it works ! radiance + skadi + manta or damage , depending on other lineup.
yea, its correct that skadi makes sense if one is not making heart but if one has skadi and heart , then it is v v v difficult to kill a radiance spectre.
^ Thanks.
I have pretty much decided the build . Phase boots - rad - skadi - manta - butterfly. and one last item depending on opposition team. Might be MKB or heart or anything.
Debate on sny vs manta is like debate on playing defensive or more aggressive . Thinking like that manta suits more, i think .
^ yes u seem to be correct. I will play few game and let me check it myself XD .. radiance manta and octrine.. octrine as 3rd item i guess
The only way you can rush a radiance in this patch as spectre is with a freefarm start... that isnt common this days.
Is better go for drums + another early game item (urn + poorman shield, aquila + stick, VG, etc), if you lose early game really hard cause you have only boots in youre inventory say good bye to that radiance and the game.
About butter vs skady, skady has the better synergy with the hero and cannot be countered (you have radiance and thats enough reason for your enemies to build mkbs). HP boost from skady works well with dispersion and the damage of your illusions (haunt / manta) is almost the same with butterfly or skady. But still butterfly is such a good item if enemy heroes arent natural mkb carriers.
My build with spectre is something like this:
Boots (Phase or Treads) => (early game strong items listed above) => Drums
=> Radiance => Manta => Diffusal 1
=> Refresher => sell drums buy Skady
=> Upgrade diffusal, buy BoT
=> move refresher to stash, buy (Butterfly/AC or Heart or Abyssal/Mkb)
=> Moonshard, more tier 1 items to stash (spectre isnt limited by the 6 slot cap when played properly)
Build tanky early, build DAMAGE rest of the game...
dont get heart after radiance cause you never gonna be 7-slotted doing that and you will get OUTCARRIED cause youre a passive player who thinks that dispersion is the way to go, if you wanna rape the entire enemy team, and you can, dont build like a bristleback
if you dont go heavy damage deathball build on spec why play her? thats like never buy a divine on dusa
i go phase pms orb of venom urn radiance its perfect for early game and you can be active b4 you get radiance
radiance is to farm. cause spectre can't farm at all. late game would be like this
radiance - manta - tarrasq - bot - fly - skadi - moonshard ( consumed ) - refresher orb ( courier )
a commonsense i never get that build
usually radiance manta phase boots tarrasq already win the game.
for me i buy tango, quelling, stout as strt. get a ring of health > phase > str8 rad > yasha > heart > manta
add boots of travel after heart or manta or anywhr after rad
radiance means your lategame is gonna be extremely good. Usually if Spectre gets an early radiance it's usually an instant GG for that team if the Spectre boy knows what he's doing.
Also expecting to get radiance after 30 or even 35 minutes, then you probably shouldn't have picked Spectre at all. If this is your time goal then you should look to play different carries.
Go skadi if you don't need sustain from heart as it's only a little less hp than heart and better stats for your illusions, but if you don't have urns or meks on your team to sustain a push then heart is great for fighting and backing out to regen then keep pushing.
Radiance vs diffusal just depends on if you can farm it fast enough, but it's not overrated, you can still go diffusal and vanguard and get a ~30-40 min radiance and wipe teams with your ult.
You can get full gear with spectre guys, but forget about HoT after radiance you need manta so you can split push like a mini naga siren and farm several camps / lanes while you are safe farming jungle. People forgets that you dont need to be near your allies, so with a radiance and a manta spectre farms really quick her luxury items cause she dont cares about leaving the base or being far from her allies => more space for you ;)
HoT is overrated, is good for push / sieges, but skady outclass that item anyways
the choose is between butter and radiance, not skady and butter...
btw, if you win with radiance, unless in some really odd specific case, you woulda won win diffu aswell. But if you win with diffu, you don't always win with radiance.
That's the reason why the choice is between butter and radiance.
Now that radiance makes an aoe miss, it's pretty good (along with illusion of haunt being pretty bad at scaling unless the targets are alone).
^^ nobody "rush" any item in late :P
^ refresher orb makes radiance a good scaling item late game since with 14 seconds of haunt bkb and pipe doesnt counters you too much.
And about diffu vs radiance, i agree both items are at the same level of power in fight capability. The advantage of radiance build is the farm speed and safe split push capability (with manta) but diffusal is cheaper and has a better progression so depends on the game... since i like to build pure damage deathball spectre with radiance diffusal and refresher most of the game i buy both :P
My spectrebuild so far:
Phaseboots (better for chasing and feeing), PMS (harrassment), Aquila (manaregen some stats), Roh-> Radiance (!)
Optional Orb of Venom can do wonders while chasing.
The small items (PMS, Aquilla, Phase, Roh) allow you to jungle, keep you in lane , provide the needed manaregen and grant you some survivability+ earlygame damage. Never rush naked brown boots radiance. It backfires almost every game.
Urn can provide the same effect, but you need to participate in kills to get charges (slashers way). So if you are behind, it wont help you. Also urncharges are precious and gone fast, if you have to move in the jungle. The ROH is part of Refresher, so I like the pickup. Aquila provides damage, armor and manaregen (more than urn).
Vanguard is a viable option, but I do not like it. Too costly and does not provide any offensive power: You are carry; you have to deal damage. It also does not solve your earlygame manaissues.
While drums are a nice overall pickup, they do not provide manaregen or healthregen. So you will still have trouble staying in lane.
Next item of my choice is refresher orb: The radianceburn hurts less the longer the game goes. 14 sek haunt and radianceburn arround min 25-30 will change teamfights alot.
It provides also some more manaregen: You can now farm and move with stiffling dagger arround the map. You can clear jungle much faster, since you move from camp to camp through trees and hurt the neutrals with dagger.
Next item of choice is diffu into yasha into manta . Diffu allows you to chase better. It also gives your illus the most damage.
Last pickup is butterfly or shotgun. Maybe octarine. Never tried octarine.
This built worked up to 4.5k mmr. I guess it would also work in higher mmrs, but my skill ends at 4.5k.
Personaly I prefer to skip Radiance. Yes-Yes it's very efective but spectre kinda have TONS of damage without it. Well my fav build on her got nerfed in 6.84 It's MoM build I go Aquila, PT, (wand), quelling blade, mask and tp on lanestage further i go into MoM Yasha manta\diffusals (i get both anyway obv) Skadi Abyssal\MKB
Oh and don't rush to judge MoM have nice synergy with desperion from my POW more useful than Vanguard (which i dare say is ＦＵＫＫＥＮ ＵＳＥＬＥＳ）
You dont have to buy RoH unless going vanguard. You can abuse buy/sell RoH with dagger in side shop,
i hate going casual roh on spectre refresher is at best 3rd item material so u'll be holding on to a naked roh for the longest time which is suboptimal imo
but beesa goes that build so w/e i guess
Tried Octarine on spectre. Yes it works , she gets lifesteal but the match was easy so couldnt actually guarantee if it was better but gave me scope to try it more :) Thanks to Balloons :D
About heart vs skadi. Skadi has been winning matches lately for me. Will try once with heart again i guess.
if you buy heart you're supposed to disengage quickly, heal up and come back just as quick. skadi is probably better on spectre, but I don't Play her ever.
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^ Heading + consider the latest update on radiance. I think perfect spectre build would be like Boots + Rad for 1st items , go for manta next and skadi next .
last 2 free slots would be items considering opposition if special items needed , like mkb for PA . Final slot can be used for heart in late game.