General Discussion

General Discussionstrength carries

strength carries in General Discussion
Dire Wolf

    Do strength carries just kind of suck in general right now? My combined record with tiny, sven, dk and ck in ranked is 26-37, 41% win rate. I do much better with doom and wk but they aren't exactly carries, more like utility semi carries. My lycan win rate is fine too, but is he really a str carry or more like a pusher? Idk, distinctions don't matter I guess, just wondering if these types of carries aren't that great for the current meta or if I suck badly with them. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but of the four guys only sven has a positive win rate at 50.6%. Dk is a pretty abysmal 45% putting him in the bottom third of all heroes this month.

    I feel like basically these guys just get non stop kited and cc'd either before getting bkb or as soon as it wears off late game. Bkb reliant heroes don't seem to be doing that great lately.

    THICC BABY SHUM

      yah, feels like thats true
      jugg troll pa void all agi carrys been picked a lot and actually win

      BenaoLifedancer

        right now they kinda do. Others just farm too much better THIS patch and since winning by fast push is rare, you don't need them to tank your way through.

        nami

          4 wins - 1 losses with Tiny
          3 wins - 2 losses with Sven

          Those were my games with them in the past 10 days. No idea whatchu talking about. The main reasons you have negative winrate with Sven was your item build. You realize you never won a game where you didn't build blink? Satanic isn't a bad item either but you don't get it before you have any attack speed items.

          Your Tiny has horrible itemization.

          And I honestly don't recommend playing Chaos Knight hard carry in pubs. He has no farming mechanism so everytime he falls behind, he will NEVER catch up. Not a very good hard carry pub hero. Much better as a semi-carry with other semi/hard carries on your team.

          THICC BABY SHUM

            ur tiny has 49% wr my has 58% of over 300 games, i know tiny is prutty shitty right now even after the 2 mini buffs. ur comaring 2 heros to like 30 ur kunkka dsnt look too good ether. And Im putting my tiny stats as experience over a lot of games, I know tiny.

            Dire Wolf

              My tiny is all over the place cus I don't play him much.

              But I don't know how can you lay a blanket statement like blink is required to win sven games. Let's take the last 10 games, which is when I posted a sven thread asking for builds and started making armlet core and not rushing daedulus. 5-5 in that span. Games with blink 4-3. Games without 1-2. So I don't see how you can say you only ever win with blink when I also lost 3 out of 7 games even with blink. Also of the three games without blink one was super short so never had chance to get it, one we were so far behind it didn't matter, went bigger items instead, and the third was a big mistake not building it. We were so far ahead I thought I could rush heart and have armlet, mom, heart by like 22 mins. But team started diving hard core, I followed them like a lemming and we ended up losing. That one I needed the blink.

              Anyway I have been trying to follow zenoth's sven advice and go mom, armlet then blink. Maybe I need to rush blink more, idk.

              Metallicize

                ^i think the best way is to rush mom+pt into blink and after that armlet.
                with pt+mom you can clear stacks and farm a really fast dagger, andwith a really fast dagger+mom you can kill heroes early game and get gold for armlet.

                Dire Wolf

                  Well agi carries have a much easier path then. You can build like 12 different things on troll and still win easily.

                  yung griphook

                    kunkka is a very fun hero to play imo, regardless of WR.

                    !attacker seems to do pretty well with him when i watch anyway

                    Zenoth

                      http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1280171427

                      win games with shittiest str carry ez

                      bibi

                        Strength carries seems to be more focused on fighting/ganking while agi tends to be more efficient farmers/ratters. Id say if you are stacking and plan on finishing at about 30min you can go strg carry. In solo pubs its much safer to go medusa/spectre/void and just comback even after being 0-11 at the 5min mark because the enemy team is so disorganised because they wouldnt end earlier.

                        Tl:dr when i go bristle/tiny/ck etc i shout at our team 24/7 to group up and push and rek most of the time agi carries when theyre still weak.

                        Dont farm as a strength hero, get 1-2 core item at about 20min then snowball or gg.

                        Qii
                          nami

                            If you know your tiny is all over the place, why did you ask if the hero is weak =.=, he's easier than Sven because you'll have more impact early game. Blink or Shadowblade are a must on him. I prefer Shadowblade because of the 30% aspd for only 550g more. Solo ganking is easier since you can bypass wards as well. Then Aghs into BKB/Cuirass/Mom/Manta or w/e.

                            Its not a blanket statement about the blink for Sven. For a hero whose main weakness is getting kited (everyone agrees on this), not opting for gap closers is ridiculous. You will have to depend a lot on your team because you're never gonna be able to solo kill anyone unless you're so fat you wipe them in 2 hits. Its almost as extreme as an Earthshaker without blink. You're mighty strong but everyone will just avoid you unless your team holds them down.

                            Will I win everygame if I buy blink on Earthshaker? Even if I don't, blink is still a must on him yes?

                            This comment was edited
                            Mandalorian

                              Zenoth is really a rare player, that can build and play strenght carries to their true potential. I see lots of monkeys in pubs even at high level, that go some strange skill builds that dont suit the way they play, IMHO the only way to play Alchemist right i rush Battle fury with greevils greed and you're full sloted at 25 min. That's the true Alchemist strength, but only few people actually understand that and whine, how is he a bad hero.

                              BOY WITH LUV

                                Zenoth nandesku?

                                Hopeless

                                  lifestealer is still good imho. he doesn't get enough play when the enemy team picks high hp heroes.

                                  GANTO PUTRA

                                    magnus !!!

                                    Dire Wolf

                                      "lifestealer is still good imho. he doesn't get enough play when the enemy team picks high hp heroes."

                                      the only high hp heroes picked anymore are pudge and axe cus again, str carries blow right now. I feel you it's just usually you're naix up against pa and jugger and it's not a great matchup.

                                      casual gamer

                                        jug troll sniper void etc all fuck LS hard

                                        afaik LS hasn't been a good hero since the huge armlet nerf

                                        bibi

                                          I think only a 6 slotted chaos knight could potentially destroy the hard carries like void/medusa/spectre in a 1v1. Thing is, ck farms like shit and hes counter picked so easly like meepo. Pick aoe and his illusions dies.

                                          kr

                                            pick razor and od sucks
                                            pick razor and troll/jugg suck
                                            pick axe and jugg sucks
                                            pick omni and jugg sucks
                                            pick sky and storm sucks
                                            pick clock and sniper sucks

                                            you can literally say this for every fucking hero

                                            Greygrey

                                              Obviously none of you know how to play strength heroes the correct way so here is a bit of a guide for you

                                              PICK AXE
                                              [Img]http://s4.postimg.org/st4pw30tp/dota_2_axe.png[/img]

                                              Build a blade mail

                                              Then destroy everything in your path, hit level 25 and declare GG

                                              Commend me plz

                                              This comment was edited
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                                                done

                                                Epic Sax Guy

                                                  STR carries are generally high risk, high reward. They need to snowball or risk sinking the team CK and Legion probably the best exampels of this.

                                                  The STR carries that can work on a wider scale are Bristle, WK and Lycan but would still be considered situational.